Posted on 10/07/2002 1:03:41 PM PDT by Polycarp
This is a decent summary from a non-Catholic source:
Current status of Mary:
Although the virgin Mary is rarely mentioned in the Bible, and although Protestant churches consider her to be a relatively minor biblical character, the Roman Catholic Church has long assigned her an elevated status.
The Roman Catholic Church has historically taught two basic dogmas about Mary:
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1. Mary is the Mother of God. |
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2. Perpetual Virginity: Mary was a virgin when Yeshua (Jesus) was conceived; this state continued throughout her life. |
Two additional dogmas about Mary were infallibly proclaimed by two popes during the 19th and 20th centuries:
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3. Immaculate Conception: Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary on 1854-DEC-8. Many Roman Catholics believe that this refers to Jesus' conception circa 5 to 7 BCE. In fact, it means that Mary herself was conceived free of sin before her birth circa 20 BCE. |
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4. Assumption of Mary: Pope Pius XII, in his Munificentissimus Deus (1950-NOV-1), defined that Mary, "after the completion of her earthly life was assumed body and soul into the glory of Heaven." That is, she was "taken up body and soul into heaven," at the time of her death. She is there "exalted as Queen of the Universe." 1 |
In addition, various popes and church councils have referred to Mary as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate:
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In ancient times:
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1750: Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, canonized as Saint Alphonsus in 1839, wrote a book "The Glories of Mary." It continues to be published today, under various church imprimaturs. Various chapters in the book are titled: "Mary our Help," "Mary our Mediatress," "Mary our Advocate," etc. 1 | ||||||
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1935: Pope Pius XI gave the title co-redemptrix to Mary during a radio broadcast. 1 | ||||||
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Circa 1965: The Chapter 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, passed by the Vatican Council II states, in part:
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1985: Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity...In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son." 4 | ||||||
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1987-MAR-25: In his encyclical Redemptoris Mater, Pope John Paul II "referred to Mary as 'Mediatrix' three times, and as 'Advocate' twice." 1 | ||||||
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1997-APR-9: During an audience Pope John-Paul II referred to the role of Mary during the crucifixion of Jesus: "Mary … co-operated during the event itself and in the role of mother; thus her co-operation embraces the whole of Christ’s saving work. She alone was associated in this way with the redemptive sacrifice that merited the salvation of all mankind. In union with Christ and in submission to him, she collaborated in obtaining the grace of salvation for all humanity...In God’s plan, Mary is the ‘woman’ (cf. John 2:4; John 19:26), the New Eve, united to the New Adam in restoring humanity to its original dignity. Her cooperation with her Son continues for all time in the universal motherhood which she enjoys in the order of grace. Trusting in this maternal cooperation, let us turn to Mary, imploring her help in all our needs." 1 |
Although Mary has been referred to on numerous occasions as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate, none have the force of an infallible papal declaration.
Professor Mark Miravalle of Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH, initiated a formal petition drive in 1993 during a Marian conference at that university. It asks the Pope to make infallible statement that would officially elevate Mary, the mother of Jesus, to the status of co-redeemer. More than six million signatures from 148 countries have reached the Vatican as of the end of the year 2000, asking that Pope John Paul II infallibly declare a new dogma: "That the Virgin Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus and co-operates fully with her son in the redemption of humanity." If this were done, "she would be a vastly more powerful figure, something close to the fourth member of the Holy Trinity and the primary female face through which Christians experience the divine." 3 Miravalle's petition has received support from Mother Theresa, 550 bishops, Cardinal John O'Connor and 41 other cardinals (including at least 12 cardinals in Rome). If the dogma is declared infallibly, it would pronounce Mary as "Co-Redemptrix [co-redeemer], Mediatrix [mediator] of All Graces, and Advocate for the People of God." It would require all Roman Catholics to believe that:
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Mary is co-redemptrix with Jesus. She participates in people's redemption. |
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Mary is mediatrix and has the power to grant all graces. |
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Mary is the advocate for the people of God and has the authority to influence God's judgments. |
If the dogma is infallibly declared, many feel that, in the words of Father Rene Laurentin, it would be the equivalent of launching "bombs" at Protestants. Father Laurentin is a French monk and the world's leading Mary scholar. He believes that: "Mary is the model of our faith but she is not divine. There is no mediation or co-redemption except in Christ. He alone is God." Raising the status of Mary would further acerbate the split between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. Ecumenical activity would be negatively affected. There is speculation that a schism might develop over the issue within the Roman Catholic church. There may be a renewed debate over the role of the pope's power in the church. 5,6
Isn't that role adequately described with the long-settled title Theotokos?
" there is NONE righteous no not ONE" (Romans 3:10)..said while Mary yet lived I believe ..Are you saying that Mary did not need a savior?
Pcrp: "Glad you're paying attention. There is hope for you still."
No one has hope unless you say they do? LOL
In spite of the WORD I eat who says He is the only mediator between God and man and is the ONLY spiritual guide for those who have his mind (his regenerate flock), are you bucking to be the next "infallible" pope?
Of course not. I was responding to the comment made by SMEDLEYBUTLER, and speaking within the framework of Catholic theology. He said that "The Blessed Virgin Mary has a unique role in the redemption accomplished by her Son, Jesus Christ, the divine Redeemer". I pointed out that this role had already been described in an early ecumenical council.
Except for the "sound bites" you previously quoted? LOL
BTW!! Did you see the "sound-bites" in #140?
How about this sound-bite?: "None can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him"?
Who are the ones in the "nun" catagory (pardon the pun) that Mary draws to Christ? LOL
Only because he held to the doctrine of the early church, also. Otherwise, we wouldn't agree with him since he isn't "infallible", only The Word is infallible.
FYI:
Irenaeus and Tertullian had to contend with the Gnostics who were the very first to suggest and teach that they possessed an Apostolic oral Tradition that was independent from Scripture.
These early fathers rejected such a notion and appealed to Scripture alone for the proclamation and defense of doctrine. Church historian, Ellen Flessman-Van Leer affirms this fact:
For Tertullian Scripture is the only means for refuting or validating a doctrine as regards its content...For Irenaeus, the church doctrine is certainly never purely traditional; on the contrary, the thought that there could be some truth, transmitted exclusively viva voce (orally), is a Gnostic line of thought...If Irenaeus wants to prove the truth of a doctrine materially, he turns to scripture, because therein the teaching of the apostles is objectively accessible.
Proof from tradition and scripture serve one and the same end: to identify the teaching of the church as the original apostolic teaching.
The first establishes that the teaching of the church is this apostolic teaching, and the second, what this apostolic teaching is (Ellen Flessman-van Leer, Tradition and Scripture in the Early Church (Van Gorcum, 1953, pp. 184, 133, 144).
What would you say if I evaded questions you asked me, like you evade mine?
Anyhow, I'll pay close attention to what you "prefer to do" in your future posts. LOL
You're 100% right RnMom--that is a problem and it's why the Church didn't say it was logically imperative that Mary had to be sinless for Christ to be sinless. It said instead "it is fitting" that Mary be sinless. It was not a logical necessity, but it was wholly appropriate that God grant it. As the ark that held the stone tables of the Old Law was pure and inviolable, so all the more would the ark that carried within her the Word would be pure and inviolable as well.
If you don't address a "doctrine of filial affection" then you haven't dealt with the historic root that Mariology grew out of. This is what convinced Scott Hahn that catholicism's argument wasn't bankrupt. It covers both the immaculate conception and the assumption in their view. In Hahn's "Hail, Holy Queen" he says (pg158)
(old priest in pulpit is speaking; Hahn is listening) "We're celebrating our mother today!"
..."if anybody should ask you," he thundered, "'Why do you believe that Mary was conceived without sin?' what are you gonna tell him?" He paused.
"What are you gonna tell him?" He paused again.
Then with a twinkle, he said, "Tell him this: If you could have created your mother and preserved her from original sin, would you? Would you?....Of course you would!
"But could you? No, you couldn't! But Jesus could and so Jesus did!"
Now, is your teaching about Jesus' filial affection and the extent to which he would go for his mother?
Come on Sio..you know I would not be entitled to anything by virtue of being his mother
Nice try thought:>))
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