Current status of Mary [Re: Cardinal Ratzinger Does Not Foresee Approval of “Co-redemptrix”]

[Desdemona]

Is the one you center your life around the one who meant what he said when he used the contrastive word, "rather" when he said this?:

"But Jesus said, “On the contrary, (rather) blessed are those who hear the world of God, and observe it.” Luke 11:27, 28

One of my main bones of contention with bible quoters is sound-bite-ism. This has been taken out of context. Read the whole passage. He didn't say she wasn't Blessed. It was in a broader address regarding sin. He didn't say anything about her soul, just body parts.

[malakhi]

The Blessed Virgin Mary has a unique role in the redemption accomplished by her Son, Jesus Christ, the divine Redeemer.

Isn't that role adequately described with the long-settled title Theotokos?

[RnMomof7]

It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527).

" there is NONE righteous no not ONE" (Romans 3:10)..said while Mary yet lived I believe ..Are you saying that Mary did not need a savior?

[RnMomof7]

So do you believe she is the Mother of God?

[Matchett-PI]

M-PI: "..one of the worst Protestant (self-described) 'bashers'"

Pcrp: "Glad you're paying attention. There is hope for you still."

No one has hope unless you say they do? LOL

In spite of the WORD I eat who says He is the only mediator between God and man and is the ONLY spiritual guide for those who have his mind (his regenerate flock), are you bucking to be the next "infallible" pope?

[malakhi]

So do you believe she is the Mother of God?

Of course not. I was responding to the comment made by SMEDLEYBUTLER, and speaking within the framework of Catholic theology. He said that "The Blessed Virgin Mary has a unique role in the redemption accomplished by her Son, Jesus Christ, the divine Redeemer". I pointed out that this role had already been described in an early ecumenical council.

[Matchett-PI]

"One of my main bones of contention with bible quoters is sound-bite-ism"

Except for the "sound bites" you previously quoted? LOL

BTW!! Did you see the "sound-bites" in #140?

How about this sound-bite?: "None can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him"?

Who are the ones in the "nun" catagory (pardon the pun) that Mary draws to Christ? LOL

[theAmbassador]

Does this mean that you are not Roman Catholic or does this mean that you believe the Vicar of Christ to have appointed a Tare to the position Archbishop? Or are you just pulling my leg? I'm curious about this.

[Irisshlass]

Correct he did...His views are the same as the Catholic Church...and if those views can be tossed out why do protestants believe in his doctrine of Sola Scriptura?

[Desdemona]

Oh, no, I'm Roman Catholic. I just believe that the Archibishop of LA is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Desdemona]

I'm done chasing my tail. I still prefer to read Biblical quotes in context. They make more sense that way.

[drstevej]

***how much did Jesus love His Mom, does He still consider her His Mom, and to what lengths would He go for her even after His glorification.***

Pure speculation.

How quickly does speculation [perhaps] become supposition [probably]which becomes statement of fact [precisely]. ...And the Bible is superceded by speculation.


***We Protestants who don't get that, don't understand the issue.***

The problem is not that I don't understand that, that I don't get that; the fact is, I understand the point and reject it as pure speculation. I do not have to agree with something to understand it.

[Matchett-PI]

"why do protestants believe in his doctrine of Sola Scriptura?"

Only because he held to the doctrine of the early church, also. Otherwise, we wouldn't agree with him since he isn't "infallible", only The Word is infallible.

FYI:

Irenaeus and Tertullian had to contend with the Gnostics who were the very first to suggest and teach that they possessed an Apostolic oral Tradition that was independent from Scripture.

These early fathers rejected such a notion and appealed to Scripture alone for the proclamation and defense of doctrine. Church historian, Ellen Flessman-Van Leer affirms this fact:

For Tertullian Scripture is the only means for refuting or validating a doctrine as regards its content...For Irenaeus, the church doctrine is certainly never purely traditional; on the contrary, the thought that there could be some truth, transmitted exclusively viva voce (orally), is a Gnostic line of thought...If Irenaeus wants to prove the truth of a doctrine materially, he turns to scripture, because therein the teaching of the apostles is objectively accessible.

Proof from tradition and scripture serve one and the same end: to identify the teaching of the church as the original apostolic teaching.

The first establishes that the teaching of the church is this apostolic teaching, and the second, what this apostolic teaching is (Ellen Flessman-van Leer, Tradition and Scripture in the Early Church (Van Gorcum, 1953, pp. 184, 133, 144).

[Matchett-PI]

"I'm done chasing my tail. I still prefer to read Biblical quotes in context. They make more sense that way."

What would you say if I evaded questions you asked me, like you evade mine?

Anyhow, I'll pay close attention to what you "prefer to do" in your future posts. LOL

[Irisshlass]

Gnostics beliefs were ...Christ was an illusion...they called the Crucifixion...crucifiction...Christ was not God...God of the Old Testament is evil...etc.

[Claud]

Did Anne need to be sinless to have a sinless daughter that would be sinless?

You're 100% right RnMom--that is a problem and it's why the Church didn't say it was logically imperative that Mary had to be sinless for Christ to be sinless. It said instead "it is fitting" that Mary be sinless. It was not a logical necessity, but it was wholly appropriate that God grant it. As the ark that held the stone tables of the Old Law was pure and inviolable, so all the more would the ark that carried within her the Word would be pure and inviolable as well.

[Desdemona]

Evading? From one of your earlier posts:

How about this sound-bite?: "None can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him"?

What was the vessel of Christ's passage to Earth? The saints and Mary, who brought people into the church, lived by and spoke the words of Christ.

Who are the ones in the "nun" catagory (pardon the pun) that Mary draws to Christ?

This is apples/oranges. Many orders of nuns and sisters (yes, there is a difference) are not under the aegis of the Blessed Mother. They are Christ derived through the work of saints and women's dedication to a life in Christ. Orders are named like Sisters of the Most Precious Blood (that would be Christ's), Order of St. Ursula (although, they're dying out. too liberal for the young girls going into the convent), Religious Sisters of Mercy, Daughters of Charity....There may be statues of the Blessed Mother in the convents but nuns are called by Christ.

I've done my duty. Now, leave me alone.

[xzins]

You might consider it speculation but it is the root of the catholic argument.

If you don't address a "doctrine of filial affection" then you haven't dealt with the historic root that Mariology grew out of. This is what convinced Scott Hahn that catholicism's argument wasn't bankrupt. It covers both the immaculate conception and the assumption in their view. In Hahn's "Hail, Holy Queen" he says (pg158)

(old priest in pulpit is speaking; Hahn is listening) "We're celebrating our mother today!"
..."if anybody should ask you," he thundered, "'Why do you believe that Mary was conceived without sin?' what are you gonna tell him?" He paused.
"What are you gonna tell him?" He paused again.
Then with a twinkle, he said, "Tell him this: If you could have created your mother and preserved her from original sin, would you? Would you?....Of course you would!
"But could you? No, you couldn't! But Jesus could and so Jesus did!"

Now, is your teaching about Jesus' filial affection and the extent to which he would go for his mother?

[RnMomof7]

You might be entitled to some or all of the royalties depending on the circumstances of your son's invention. There isn't enough information in your question to address it in terms of US law, European Law or international law and treaties.

Come on Sio..you know I would not be entitled to anything by virtue of being his mother

Nice try thought:>))