Posted on 09/23/2002 12:48:43 PM PDT by nickcarraway
NAPLES, Italy (Reuters) - The substance many Neopolitans believe is the dried blood of their patron saint liquefied right on cue on Thursday, in a twice-yearly "miracle."
Thousands of faithful crammed into Naples cathedral to see the blood of the fourth century Saint Gennaro turn from powder to liquid, which they see as a good omen for the city and the world. The miracle has been recorded almost without fail for the past 600 years -- on September 19, the saint's feast day, and on the first Saturday in May. When the blood has remained dry, tragedies have followed.
Scientists have confirmed that the substance inside the closed vial is blood but cannot explain why it regularly turns to liquid.
Cardinal Michele Giordano told the congregation this year's miracle was particularly good, because the blood had liquefied in less than an hour.
"It's an extraordinary event, also because you can clearly see that the blood has changed color and there's more of it," Girodano said holding up the glass vial.
Disaster has struck at least five times after the blood failed to liquefy. In 1527 the plague killed 40,000 people and more recently in November 1980 some 3,000 people died in a massive earthquake that struck southern Italy.
"To say Mary was sinless is to say that she was a Son of God just like Jesus."
Really? Then are all the angels who stayed with God after Lucifer rebelled also Sons of God like Jesus? (Hint: Correct answer is, NO.) They are created beings just as we are. However, they are also sinless. Saint Michael the Archangle, for instance. I don't know a SINGLE Catholic who would state, or even think, Mary is divine since Mary is a created being. God -Father, Son, and Holy Spirit- are uncreated beings and, thus, divine.
Before you start shooting from the hip you would do well to consider at least a little basic theology. You might also want to consider an apology for spreading falsehoods.
Or how about this. Eve, before the Fall, was sinless -as was Adam. Both, then, were created sinless. By saying this, am I also 'raising' them to the level of Jesus?
As I understand, some Catholics do believe that Mary had to be divine in order to conceive Jesus the Divine.
Another myth. Provide the name of one practicing Catholic who believes this and I will contact them myself.
The Catholics do, however, pray to Mary which is in effect placing her in the same position of Jesus Christ.
We offer intercessory prayers because we believe in the Communion of the Saints. Please look this up in the Catechism for an detailed explanation. We DO NOT place her in the same position as Jesus Christ.
I would like to know what you believe irregardless of the Catholic Church, for your personal relationship with Christ is more important than the doctrines and practices of any Church.
This is where you are totally mislead. Jesus gave his Church the great commission (Matt 28;19,20) to go and teach all nations. Because I have faith in Christ and his word, I also believe the Church he established faithfully teaches us his message. Therefore the Church is responsible for teaching sound doctrine and I am responsible for following it. So my personal relationship with Christ is based on sound doctrine and teaching. In short, I believe what he tells us.
It is you who will have to stand before God on Judgement Day for your sins, not the Church.
I know this.
I understand the Pope to be considered Christ's replacement on earth as the head of the Church. Peter is suppose to be the first Pope. But Peter was never given this title and Peter in no way claimed many positions the Pope does. The New Testament saints did not pray to Peter but to God directly, because once again Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. It is the Holy Spirit who guides the actions of the saints, not any Church. A Church can only put up guidelines but those guidelines must be within the confines of God's Word, otherwise they are preaching another gosple and are therefore false teachers.
Many misconceptions here. My Catechism link will help you if you are interested.
The Catholic Church does teach a works-based salvation.
I’ve asked you to show me where the Church teaches this. Maybe my Catechism link will help your understanding on this.
Things such as infant baptism and communion are works and are nothing spiritual in and of themselves. They are but acts of men. God's Word teaches that all man's works are as filthy rags before all-righteous God, and that no man is righteous, no not even one, except for Jesus.
To say that baptism and communion are works show that you have fallen prey to unsound doctrine. I can promise you this is a man made doctrine and was not taught by Christ or the Apostles.
The real power is spiritual not physical. Nothing man does can save him. Only faith in Jesus Christ can "save" a man and that is because Jesus saves. When Jesus gave up His spirit and died He cried "It is finished.". Jesus paid it all on the cross. Nothing is left for a man to do except accept that gift Jesus gave.
I can agree with some of what you have stated here however, a mere mental assent that Christ died for our sins is not enough. Good grief, even Satan acknowledges who Christ is.
Faith without works is dead, but works without Faith are worthless.
Read Ephesians 2:10 to complete the thought and then get back to me.
The dying man on the cross beside Jesus was neither ever baptised nor did he do any of the sacraments.
It would be more accurate to say the “repentant” thief on the cross. That is important because after he repented Christ forgave him. However, to use this example as an excuse to blow of the sacraments is ridiculous. You would have to ignore many other verses in the NT, for example John 3:5.
God's Word is the only authority.
That’s not what the Bible says. How many times do I have to quote 1 Tim 3:15?
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
OK
We learn of God from His Word and we understand what it is to have faith in Jesus through His Word alone.
OK I’ll repeat myself. That's not what the Bible says. How many times do I have to quote 1 Tim 3;15?
As to Martin Luther and such. The Catholic Church in his day made translating the Bible into another language other than Latin a crime punishable by execution via burning at the stake.
Sources?
When translations did spring up the Reformation started to come about and many of those Reformers were persecuted by the Catholic Church. Ever heard of William Tyndale?
Ever heard of Thomas More? He called Tyndale's Bible, "The Testament of Antichrist". You should do a little more research on Tyndale before you start proclaiming him as a competent bible translator.
Here is one to get you started Catholic Catechism. Before you post what is rumored to be Catholic belief, please have the courtesy to check it first against this resource. That will help keep you from telling fallacies about the Church.
Before you place Tyndale on a pedestal, you might want to hear what King Henry VIII had to say about his poor translation: "the translation of the Scirpture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people, and not be suffered to go abroad among his subjects."
On what grounds does he call the Tyndale translation corrupt? Tyndale believed in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and his was the first English translation of the New Testament from Greek.
With or without its translative idiosyncrasies (which have yet to be cited) being the first English translation of the New Testament from Greek which was during a time when you could be killed (and he was) for attempting such a godly work is great, godly merit in and of itself. His translation was used in translating later translations including the 1611 KJV.
The so-called Catholic Church hates to death this God sent man who is now with the saints in heaven, looking down at the men who put him to death who are most likely burning in Hell as you are reading this.
Any other gospel is a false gosple. That's what Peter, Paul and Mary believed and preached (Mary didn't preach) as well as all the other apostles and disciples. Their entire lives and ministries pointed to Christ and the cross.
Jesus said: John 5:24 I say unto you; he that hears my Word and and believes on Him that sent me, has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
He also told us that He is the way, the truth, and the life and that no man comes to the Father but by Himself.
It's faith in Jesus that saves. Jesus saves, not the corrupt, so-caled C.C.
What's makes you say this? You sound like a very bitter person.
1 For I want you to know how great a struggle I am having for you and for those in Laodicea and all who have not seen me face to face,
2 that their hearts may be encouraged as they are brought together in love, to have all the richness of fully assured understanding, for the knowledge of the mystery of God, Christ,
3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 I say this so that no one may deceive you by specious arguments.
5 For even if I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing as I observe your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ.
6 So, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in him,
7 rooted in him and built upon him and established in the faith as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
8 See to it that no one captivate you with an empty, seductive philosophy according to human tradition, according to the elemental powers of the world and not according to Christ.
9 For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily,
10 and you share in this fullness in him, who is the head of every principality and power.
11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ,.
12 You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
13 And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions;
14 6 obliterating the bond against us, with its legal claims, which was opposed to us, he also removed it from our midst, nailing it to the cross;
15 despoiling the principalities and the powers, he made a public spectacle of them, leading them away in triumph by it.
16 Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath.
17 These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.
18 Let no one disqualify you, delighting in self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions, inflated without reason by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding closely to the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and bonds, achieves the growth that comes from God.
20 If you died with Christ to the elemental powers of the world, why do you submit to regulations as if you were still living in the world?
21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"
22 These are all things destined to perish with use; they accord with human precepts and teachings.
23 While they have a semblance of wisdom in rigor of devotion and self-abasement (and) severity to the body, they are of no value against gratification of the flesh.
Rom. 3:21-31 But now the righteousness of God without the Law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation (appeasment offering) through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. To declare...His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier (not just a propitiation but a bail so to speak) of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law....Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Eph. 8-10 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God; not of works lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
1 Cor 6: 20 For you are bought with a price(redeemed=to buy back), therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 Cor 10:31 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils; you cannot be partakers of the Lord's table and of the table of devils.
2 Thes. 3:1-5 ..bretheren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have [free] course, and be glorified, even as it is with you. And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men; for not all [men] have faith.
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that you both do and will do the things which we commanded you.
And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
Well, Amen to that, sir! Christ alone is sufficient!:):);)
Amen is right, and instead of first throwing stones at the Catholic Church you could have first spent just a minute looking up what she really teaches.
I have run into many people just like you, quite a few here on FR, who rail against what they think the Church teaches. Often times these are twisted ideas their pastors have put into their heads, and once they learn the truth, you'd think it would make them wonder about those pastors and the supposed truth they are preaching.
You seem to spent much time in the Word of God. The Word of God will not return void, Irisshlass. Go to the Word and pray to the God of Heaven to give you wisdom of the Holy Spirit to understand what He wants you to. I will pray for you that God will bring to your mind the understandings of His will.
As much assurance as you.
Philippians 2: 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for [His] good pleasure. 14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.
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