WAR IS NOT INEVITABLE[AtThisTime] PRAY IN TONGUES

Meri Burlingame's AP list ^ | 16 SEP 2002 | Chris Strom [of Andrew Strom]

[Quix]

WAR IS NOT INEVITABLE. PRAY IN TONGUES"
Meri Burlingame
Sep 16, 2002

Chris Strom

From: "Chris Strom" Date sent: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:48:45 +1200

"WAR IS NOT INEVITABLE. PRAY IN TONGUES"
- by C. Strom. [-My father. -Andrew.]

I was woken early this morning by the "noise" of my spirit shouting silently in tongues. (Nothing can shout as loud as when silently praying in tongues!) Over this prayer was the clear message in English:

"WAR IS NOT INEVITABLE. PRAY IN TONGUES."

As I continued to pray I felt the following things:

(1) To alert as many people as possible to this message. That it wasn't just for me.

(2) That the battle is spiritual, not physical. That if we Christians win the battle spiritually, the physical battle will not be necessary (2Chron 20).

(3) That the same negative spiritual power that was behind Nebuchadnezzar is behind Saddam Hussein. First we must bind this strong man in the background before his puppet, the strong man in the foreground will equally submit and allow his goods to be spoiled.

(4) In practical terms: we must win the prayer battle before that spiritual power will allow Saddam to submit to the unqualified unrestricted viewing of all sites essential to prevent war.

(5) That tongues is essential. That we cannot possibly pray accurately enough in sufficient detail in English to accomplish this depth of intercession.

(6) To especially draw Christians' attention to 1 Thess 5:17,19:

Pray without ceasing...Quench not the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit will continue to pray in tongues through us (Acts 2:4) so long as we continue to co-operate with Him in this urgent occupation. Don't let other preoccupations quench Him, as can so easily happen.

(7) That fasting acts as an intensifier. Fasting amplifies the prayer. That any form of fasting is better than no fasting at all. Fasting from TV, or partial fasting, for instance. If you can't pray because of work but can fast, remember that "fasting is your whole body praying."

(8) Finally, that things would never have got this bad if only Christians had prayed. Far too many Christians are sidetracked on other good things and are neglecting the essential of prayer. Far too many intercessors are stuck on receiving revelation before praying when we already have the supernatural weapon par excellence of Holy Spirit gifted tongues. Pray without ceasing! Literal Greek: Pray without a pause!

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Andrew Strom, Thunder Ministries, PO Box 12-1022, Henderson, NEW ZEALAND 1008.

[Quix]

I think Kenneth Hagin is a man of God. Probably a great man of God. I think a lot of his disciples have taken his teachings and jumped off the cliff with them . . . including his son. I'm underwhelmed by what I hear and observe with such 2nd generation folk.

And, Kenneth Hagin doesn't advertise the caveats. One time Kenneth prayed earnestly for an elderly lady who had cancer. Kenneth knew that the lady believed THE WORD and prayed THE WORD (including "Hagin 11:24"--Mark 11:24) and that her faith was as strong as anyone's.

She died. He asked The Father about it and The Father very sternly and bluntly said it was none of Kenneth's business and furthermore, Kenneth was not to ask God about it or mention it to God ever again. Period. That's kind of a neat out for Kenneth but I don't doubt the validity of the story. This story is on one of his tapes--a very short bit. He's been faithful to avoid getting stuck on it. So Kenneth knows that things are not always as tidy as even he would like.

But there are people who are walking, hearing, seeing for the first time in their lives because Kenneth was led of The Lord to pray and apply Scirptures tenaciously, relentlessly.

It's clear that doing so results in far more miracles than not doing so. It doesn't mean that 100% of the time will things go the way one is praying they will go. Kenneth himself would have died had he not learned to apply THE WORD as he did. Thousands of others would have died untimely deaths had they not learned to pray accordingly.

Yeah, name-it-and-claim-it jumps off the deep end. So does deny it and run from it.

[RnMomof7]

We all have a measure of free will. God The Father fiercely protects it against one and all within the context of that rule of free will He set up.

My point was indeed we do all have free will ..but no will is completely free .To have that would be something evern God does not have. Luther called it the will bound by the fall.

Adam had a free will in Gods creation...all of us since then have had a will bound in sin...just waiting to be set free with the grace of God

That is why we must be born again to SEE the kingdom of God

[Quix]

I certainly wish to cheer God's sovereignity sp?

I certainly support unity in The Blood, at The Cross.

Thanks for the honor of the ?dialogue?

[RnMomof7]

But there are people who are walking, hearing, seeing for the first time in their lives because Kenneth was led of The Lord to pray and apply Scirptures tenaciously, relentlessly.




Could God have worked without Kenneth?

[drstevej]

***I think Kenneth Hagin is a man of God.***

Ever hear the name E.W. Kenyon?

[Quix]

God CAN do whatever He wants to consistent with His nature which is, of course, all He WOULD want to do.

HE HAS CHOSEN to work through men. I sure wouldn't want to tell Him he's made a dumb decision in doing so.

[RnMomof7]

Hagin is a false teacher ..teaching a false gospel ..ticking ears...



Christ's physical death on the cross was not enough to save us.
How Jesus obtained His Name, Tape 44H01


Jesus tasted spiritual death.
How Jesus obtained His Name, Tape 44H01


The Christian "is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth."
"The Incarnation," The Word of Faith (Dec. 1980)


"[Man] was created on terms of equality with God, and he could stand in God's presence without any consciousness of inferiority...God made us as much like Himself as possible...He made us the same class of being that He is Himself...Man lived in the realm of God. He lived on terms equal with God...[The] believer is called Christ...That's who we are; we're Christ"
"Zoe: The God-Kind of Life," 1989. pp. 35-36, 41


"Every man who has been born again is an incarnation and Christianity is a miracle. The believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth"
"The Incarnation," The Word of Faith 13, December, 1980


"You are as much the incarnation of God as Jesus Christ was...the believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth."
"Word Of Faith" Dec. 1980, p. 14


"Why did He need to be begotten or born? Because He became like we were - separated from God. Because He tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner men went to hell in my place. Can't you see that? Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's tasted death for every man. He's talking about tasting spiritual death. Jesus is the first person that was ever born again. Why did His spirit need to be born again? Because it was estranged from God." (Kenneth Hagin, "How Jesus obtained His Name"
Tape #44-H01



The truth http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hagin/hagin.htm

[Quix]

Yes, I've heard of Kenyon but it's been years since I read anything about him. I know Kenneth read him--or I understand that he did. I forget what Kenyon was criticized for. Evidently he was human enough to be imperfect.

[drstevej]

The point is that Hagin claimed his teaching was from God and yet he plagarized extensive portions from EW Kenyon. McConnell's book is well documented (it was his Master's thesis at Oral Roberts University). A Different Gospel.

You really ought to read it. We all are imperfect, but Hagin claims this teaching was revealed directly to him by God, YET he plagarizes EW Kenyon.

***Yes, I've heard of Kenyon but it's been years since I read anything about him.***

Your really ought to read McConnell then. EW Kenyon got his ideas from Phineas Parkhurst Quimby. Ever heard of Phineas Parkhurst Quimby?

[don-o]

Bump - for a lurk.

[RnMomof7]

Naw my point is too often the men get called great healers.......when the Giver of the gift is worthy of praise not the man. If it was Gods intent and plan to heal the man ..then he could have used a donkey

My years in the AOG I saw lots of this ..worshipping the gift and not the giver...one of the reasons I left the AOG...

[Quix]

IF your goal is to prove that great men of God have been scoundrals--you only have to go as far as the Old Testament.

I knew Kenyon had learned from at least one earlier fellow.

I am very skeptical that Hagin meant everything he'd ever learned in Christianity had 100% come only from God. He certainly had some extensive lessons from God alone when he was bedridden so many months . . . as do most Christians in such a state.

Do you really have soooooo much trouble spitting out the bones?

If so, you might prepare yourself to face your own bones. God is increasingly assisting people in doing that rather intensely and vividly beyond what they can imagine before they are in the midst of the lessons.

[Quix]

I'd sure hate to have to defend 100% of everything I'd ever said.

Evidently you have reached such a lofty state of perfection you needn't have such worries.

[RnMomof7]

I see no difference in Kenneth Hagin and joseph Smith...false doctrine is false doctrine..

Here is my concern

Remember this incident?

  Num 21:7   Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
     Num 21:8   And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.   
  Num 21:9   And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Jesus later referenced this pole and snake as a type of Christ

     Jhn 3:14   And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
     Jhn 3:15   That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life

What concerns me is the final outcome of that pole..a pole intended by God to prefigure Christ became an object of worship and caused men to take their eyes OFF God and worship the creature more than the creator


        2Ki 18:1   Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, [that] Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign.
     2Ki 18:2   Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also [was] Abi, the daughter of Zachariah.
     2Ki 18:3   And he did [that which was] right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did.
     2Ki 18:4 
  He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

It is the nature of man to seek signs and to worship reils and objects..

Jhn 8:28   Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Spiritual gifts reflect the giver not the man...so praising a man is idoltery...IMO

[Quix]

If God agrees with you about Kenneth Hagin et al, you're in great company. If He doesn't, you might have a problem.

RNMOMOF7: It is the nature of man to seek signs and to worship reils and objects..

Q: Worship ??reils?? and objects? Actually you are right. Some even worship the print on the page instead of THE LIVING WORD INCARNATE.

RNMOMOF7: Spiritual gifts reflect the giver not the man...so praising a man is idoltery...IMO

Q: So, praising man in all ways at all times in all contexts to all degrees is idolotry.

Q: Guess you'd better tell God He was wrong when He wrote: "honor to whom honor is due."

[RnMomof7]

honor to whom honor is due.

want to quote that in context?I can not find that quote.

I know this one

Revelation 4 10the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:

        11"You are worthy, O Lord,[1]
        To receive glory and honor and power;
        For You created all things,
        And by Your will they exist[2] and were created."

[drstevej]

The evidence bears out that Hagin indeed is a scoundrel (plagarist and lied about it). Want the quotes? His theology is parallel to Phineas Quimby who was the source for Mary Baker Eddy / Christian Science. The Word Faith Theology of Hagin is really quite similar to Christian Science.

You really ought to read McConnell.

***Do you really have soooooo much trouble spitting out the bones?***

I'm not ingesting Quimbyism!

[Quix]

My God is big enough, He can even help me learn something from watching the devil himself.

[Quix]

OF COURSE WE ARE TO LOVE, HONOR, PRAISE OUR GOD AND LORD ABOVE ALL ELSE ETC. OF COURSE!

But you made it sound like never at all in any way nor in any context were we to honor a brother more than 0.0000%. I don't think that's a Biblical perspective:

Acts 28:10 They honored us in many ways and when we were ready to sail, they furnished us with the supplies we needed.

Rom 12:10 Be DEVOTED TO ONE ANOTHER in brotherly love [have you EVER seen that REALLLLLYY ACTED OUT IN ANY GROUP OR CONGREGATION more than very rarely and at a relatively low level that didn't cost too much?]. Honor one another above yourselves.

I suspect those are not overly comfortable sentences for some hereon--are they for you?

Rom 13:7 [NIV IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT from the KJV which is what I've memorized mostly]. . . . If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

[Quix]

You evidently don't know--but I have more Kingdom profitable things to do than dig up dirt on folks who have, in spite of their serious flaws, helped thousands of people have a real, authentic, Biblical, closer relationship with God Almighty and our Lord and Savior by His Spirit.

If you tend to sleep better at nights knowing you've pinned all the imperfect people to your wall of judgement and packaged all those who don't agree with you 100% into tidy little boxes well stored well out of your way--help yourself to it. I'm not sure you should expect an eternal reward for it, however.