WAR IS NOT INEVITABLE[AtThisTime] PRAY IN TONGUES

1 Corinthians 14:5
I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[ 14:5 Or other languages; also in verses 6, 18, 22, 23 and 39] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[ 14:5 Or other languages; also in verses 6, 18, 22, 23 and 39] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified. (Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 14 In context: 1 Corinthians 14:4-6)

1 Corinthians 14:13
For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. (Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 14 In context: 1 Corinthians 14:12-14)

1 Corinthians 14:26
What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. (Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 14 In context: 1 Corinthians 14:25-27)

1 Corinthians 14:27
If anyone speaks in a tongue, two–or at the most three–should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. (Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 14 In context: 1 Corinthians 14:26-28)

1 Corinthians 14:28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. (Whole Chapter: 1 Corinthians 14 In context: 1 Corinthians 14:27-29)

It doesn't have anything to do with an individual's will being stronger than Grace at all.

Grace is a free gift--though we could say it cost The Father His Son and the Son His life.

God has plenty of power and whatever else He needed to set it up such that a gift could be refused without diminishing God's potency one subatomic particle's worth. If you think God was incapable of setting things up that way, I think your God is too small.

He revealed it to you WHILE STUDYING SCRIPTURE--as He often does with probably most of us.

But He just as often reveals things to me in the shower. . . or on prayer walks . . . or perhaps in driving--I haven't driven in 15 years but I recall He used to do that.

Do you think as a nation we are morally superior to the SS in Nazi Germany?

I sure do. But the smallpox blankets for the Native Americans was not our shining moment any more than abortion is currently.

And, I believe we as a nation could easily become much WORSE than the SS in Nazi Germany. Clearly the AntiChrist will be much worse. If we become his supporters or complicit in his evils in any degree or way--watch out. . . And I believe we are destined to go through that humiliation and hideous dark night. . . as a nation. I pray not. But I'm concerned about it.

Alas, I seem to have been made much more in the mold of fiesty Jeremiah or Paul or Peter

Not at all, or at least not in this thread. Judging by what you've done here...

You delight in talking about yourself. The men you cite were bound to speak the Word of God.
You dismiss fidelity to the Word as "legalism." The men you cite embraced it as living revelation of the living God.
You seem simply to like talking. Those men were all about talking God's Word.

On a secular level, you may be a wholly likable person. Spiritually, you still don't seem to get one crucial and distinctive aspect of Christianity, to wit: the one living God has made ALL the same revelation known abidingly and immutably to ALL His people, so that ALL stand on absolutely equal ground before Him in Christ (2 Timothy 3:15 — 4:4; Hebrews 2:1-4).

Dan
What Is Biblical Christianity?

But I suspect starchy, fossilized, sterile addiction to THE LAW prevents full blown being funny.

It's either your way or the Law? Levitate or Legislate?

It's no wonder that the Pentecostals have been assigned their own branch of Christianity since their belief system is neither Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant and is characterized by a distinct anti-intellectual element. BibChr is hardly legalistic which is a fact I suspect you already know. In the absence of a rational defense of your belief system, name calling and finger pointing is a natural substitute.

Keep praying in the Spirit, singing in the Spirit, even quietly, in communion with the Holy Ghost. He'll never leave you, nor forsake you--He is your Helper.

Let your Friend pray using your mouth and words, because that goes right to Jesus Himself Rom. 8:34(?)

You delight in talking about yourself. The men you cite were bound to speak the Word of God.

I guess I don't read it that way at all.

1) Do you REALLY think I would be MORE of an expert; write MORE authentically; be MORE accurate about The Word OR one's experiences with The Word or with Almighty God IF I was writing about someone else? The logic of that escapes me.

2) I haven't observed you folk speaking much about The Word that I know and Love. I've observed you speaking tons about your BIASES and PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS ABOUT The Word. IF you don't know the difference, I'm afraid I have little capacity to enlighten you without ears to hear.

You dismiss fidelity to the Word as "legalism."

3) NOT AT ALL. I dismiss seemingly mindless, blind, emotional addiction to bias ABOUT the Word as legalism.

The men you cite embraced it as living revelation of the living God.

4) I'm not sure who you are talking about with "men [I] cite. If you are talking about you folk, I have no observations that confirm your statement and many that disconfirm it. I have more of a picture of God trying to get your attention and talk to you and you saying--"Go away God, I don't want to be bothered, I have to read your book."

5) I have much more strongly a picture of folk who are ?afraid? too ?insecure? to face God one on one and prefer to pretend to relate to Him by endless unspiritual intellectual buttressing of their biases ABOUT His Word rather than apply His Word in a Living, Walking, Talking Dialogue and dance with THE LIVING WORD INCARNATE.

You seem simply to like talking.

6) Sometimes. This sort of thing, HOWEVER, is far too tedious for my preferences. I see it more as a duty to the authenticity of God's presentation of Himself to me as well as to the sort of Relationship I'm convinced Christ died for.

Those men were all about talking God's Word.

7) REALLLLLLLLLY????? You could have fooled me. I remain convinced that you folk are obsessed with/addicted to hiding behind printed words on a page rather than applying them in a dynamic one on one relationship with THE LIVING WORD INCARNATE.

8) As I was prayerfully pondering such and trying to sort out why . . . it seemed as though Father broke into my prayerful pondering and noted that you (BibChr) at least--I believe it was you--you are the one who used to be Charismatic, right--right--I scanned above--you were.

9) I heard the still small voice of The Lord note that you left Charismania NOT because of theology but because of relationship problems and emotions about those problems. The theology became a rationalization for a move that you found much "safer" and easier, more comfortable to navigate, to CONTROL.

10) I asked Father if He would show that to you and I believe He will. I don't know when. And I don't know how much you will have ears to hear. But God will do His part to give you added opportunities to have a closer, more intense relationship with Him. I suspect, though that you know exactly what I'm talking about as you read these words--especially if you are honest with yourself and God. If my hearing is correct, I suspect God will give you relatively little rest until you say uncle to Him at a deeper, broader level yet again.

11)It's a phenomenon I've observed before. Printed words on a page are infinitely easier to manipulate and force into our own comfort zones than a moment by moment dialogue with The Father or with THE LIVING WORD INCARNATE.

12) When we walk in dynamic ongoing dialogue with our Maker, He persistently has this tendency to ask us to step out of the boat and walk on the water with Him. That slices right across most of our comfort zones. He also slices to the core of our affronteries to His Lordship. He gently but persistently and often enough forcefully insists that we surrender absolutely everything to Him--even our pet doctrines about Him--even our pet doctrines about His written Word.

13) Most of us don't enjoy feeling intensely in our bone marrow's overly often WOE IS ME, I AM A MAN OF UNCLEAN LIPS . . . and nothing good. None of us enjoy long dark nights of the soul and wilderness experiences God tends to schedule for those who REALLLLLLY want an intimate relationship with Him even "merely" emotionally "face to face."

14) Most of us like to be in charge of our own ship--and being in charge of our own doctrine ship is a great "God sanctioned [we tell ourselves]" way to do it. We can trot merrily off adding layers of intellectualized rationalizations with endless chapters and verses to back them up--just like the pharisees.

15) And when WE [none of US are inherently immune], when WE do so . . . God still has a habit of calling us whited sepulchers.

16) The pharisees were artists with the written text. They had it memorized. They virtually ate it, slept with it, regurgitated it endlessly . . . and remained largely untouched by it. I've been there, done that--got a container full of the T-shirts. It's not a way to go if one is trying to choose LIFE.

17) Most any of us with half our brains functioning can trot out endless lists of Scriptures. We can masticate them; fondle them; recite them forwards and backwards; sleep with them; throw them at one another; send them as arrows to the hearts of our brothers; shove them in one another's faces and beat one another over our heads with them; paste them on our bumpers; write them on our foreheads; wear them around our necks; put them on our doorposts and lintels; yell them on the corners of busy intersections; tie one another up in them; boil, freeze, fry and smoke them . . . to little avail except heaping more judgement on ourselves.

18) I'm no longer so interested in playing intellectual masturbation games with the written text. I want to see the impact of the LIVING WORD on hearts and lives. My understanding of the historical record of Christ's walk along dusty paths is that He refused to play the pharisee's mental masturbation games with the written text, too.

19) Most all of us who are remotely serious about being Christians have had the experience of Holy Spirit highlighting a verse or phrase in a verse or maybe even a whole chapter--during our travail over this or that problem or need. Suddenly the text jumped out as though highlighted in neon and written specifically for us at that specific moment in our lives. Charismatics/Pentecostals are about little more than responding to such, tuning into such; walking in Dialogue with The Almighty, our Lord via such. Other modalities of communicating in that dialogue are just different in type or degree--but not ESSENTIALLY different.

20) In EACH CASE, THE ALMIGHTY LIVING GOD IS BREAKING THROUGH TO THE INDIVIDUAL IN THIS TIME SPACE DIMENSION WITH A VERY PERSONAL COMMUNICATION. That He is so eager to do it so often is a humbling mystery beyond calculation. That He so often does it about the tiniest priorities of our inner hearts told to no one is unfathomable. . . but indescribably glorious.

21) If you want to demonstrate fidelity to The Living Word, I suggest that you follow after a different pattern than that of the pharisees. I suggest you seek out a long walk and talk with The Father and ask Him anew to help you digest, integrate, be enlivened by THE LIVING WORD INCARNATE increasingly moment by moment through an ongoing dialogue with HIM. Yes, it can be scary becaue He rarely details our path more than a step or two ahead. And He requires our all--and ever deeper broader lengths of our ALL. But HE IS INFINITELY WORTH IT.

22) No, we can't manipulate him as even far too many Pentecostals/charismatics pretend to do. But we can have a vibrant, dynamic, tailor-made walk and dialogue with Him that is beyond compare. That's what He created us for. . . . for us to become as little children on Daddy's lap . . . to skip and run and play and turn summersaults with Him . . . to climb mountains and do great exploits with HIM.

23) Certainly The written Word is foundational--all shall be fulfilled to the nth degree. But we scarcely have any comprehension of it, much less fitting application of it apart from an ongoing, dynamic, alive Dialogue with THE LIVING WORD INCARNATE. I suspect you have known that at one point in time. I seems overdue for you to submit to the truth of it again and for the rest of your life. The Hound of Heaven can be relentless. Though He tends to allow us to define our limit of our relationship with Him. It's not His preference. It wounds His heart.

24) I'm not so interested in merely intellectually "talking about God's Word." I want to be a fitting living epistle demonstrating the vitality, spontaneity, LIFE--of walking hand in hand, listening keenly for His Still Small Voice. I fail Him miserably far too often. But amazingly He still uses my feeble efforts. I just can't imagine going back to the old way. I don't like eating sawdust. I prefer the meat of THE LIVING WORD INCARNATE conforming me to His Image by the Power of His Blood and Spirit in ongoing dialogue with Him and The Father by His Spirit.

25) Anyway--that's what I'll pray for, for you, too. Blessings,

Sorry, I fail to see the free will that I know God insists on--I fail to see that free will in your convoluted Adam and Eve presentation.

It doesn't wash with my intellect nor my spirit; nor my understanding of Scripture.

Alas, I seem to have been made much more in the mold of fiesty Jeremiah or Paul or Peter

Not at all, or at least not in this thread. Judging by what you've done here...

You are plenty smart enough to know that I was speaking of Peter and Paul's feisty-ness. You can twist it into something else if it serves your purposes--but that is going off on your own tangent--not replying to what I really was saying and meant.

Blah blah blah, another long loooooooong post, not really interesting enough for me to read. I will just note two things:

Not one Scripture dealt with, at all.
This intense irony: "I haven't observed you folk speaking much about The Word that I know and Love," from one who STARTED the dialogue claiming (lying?) to have looked at pages with dozens and dozens of in-context Scripture citations and sniffing that there was nothing there.

"Tongues." I begin to see the appeal — for you. Your favorite organ.

Dan

Q: But I suspect starchy, fossilized, sterile addiction to THE LAW prevents full blown being funny.

It's either your way or the Law? Levitate or Legislate?

OHHHHH THAT'S CUTE. THAT'S RICH. GREAT line.

No, GOD IS THE ONE WHO SAYS The LAW brings death but the Spirit LIFE.

I haven't seen anyone levitate. I have known people who have. I suspect God is free to do that whenever He chooses. And sometimes He seems to choose to do so. I beleive we'll be seeing lots of such things.

There's a pastor in Mexico over a LOT of branch churches. This head pastor will NOT EVEN CONSIDER a young man for ordination as pastor UNLESS AND UNTIL the young man has been used of God to resurrect several people from THE DEAD. Mock that if you wish. At some point, such mocking will be on very dangerous ground.

NO. I suspect it's more walk and talk [with Him] or balk and turn to chalk.

It's no wonder that the Pentecostals have been assigned their own branch of Christianity since their belief system is neither Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant and is characterized by a distinct anti-intellectual element.

This is an old straw dog I had to deal with in my PhD dissertation. A fair amount of research and abundant scholarship on the part of Charismatics and Pentecostals has shown this to be a type of racist hogwash.

The more authentic ones are certainly against intellectual masturbation; hiding behind intellectual rationalizations about printed words vs a LIVING, DYNAMIC, VIBRANT, SPONTANEOUS DIALOGUE, DANCE WITH THE LIVING GOD INCARNATE. But we are delighted that God enjoys our intellects along with our emotions, bodies and the rest of what and how He made us.

BibChr is hardly legalistic which is a fact I suspect you already know. In the absence of a rational defense of your belief system, name calling and finger pointing is a natural substitute.

On the contrary. I may not know HOW legalistic BibChr is, but too much of the intellectualizations waddle, walk, swim, quack, fly, poop etc. like the duck they seem to be.

Name calling and finger pointing . . . I suspect I am guilty of responding in kind far too often. Name calling or finger pointing to a person is NOT my desire or intent. I repent/apologize for any of that which came across that way. I do find that some people tend to not hear ANYTHING unless the response is at the same emotional and tonal level as the message being responded to. But I'm chiding the perspective, belief, NOT THE PERSON. I cherish all made in God's image and particularly believers--regardless of their biases.

WELL SAID. VERY WELL SAID AND COMFORTINGLY SO. THANKS for the encouragement.

The same back to you.

You have failed to respond at all to Scriptures I've posted--much less meaningfully, in context, congruently etc. But I understand. It's not in your interest to really try to do so.

No, I wasn't lying. Not my style. Not my preference. Not my need. What was that about name calling?

Dust most of us have been raised to worship at the altar of free will and choices

The fact is that all choices are made within a restricted set of circumstances

A man jumping off the empire state building can not exercise free will half way down.

Did you chose your sex? Did your chose your parents? Did you choose your country or city of birth? Did you chose your intelligence?

All of these things were predestined by your creator

He set up for you that parameters of the decisions and choices that will be available to you.

He could have had you born in India to Hindu parents in a low class. You never would have had an opportunity to go to school or to make the life choices you make today. You may never have heard the gospel to be saved.

Acts 17 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.

All of our choices are governed by our preferences. Our preferences are part of that same creative process of the Father

Have you read the twin studies?

I read one that blew me away

Two brothers separated at birth. both had the same IQ, Both the same level of education, both loved firefighting (one was a professional and one a volunteer), both married women similar in appearance and both wives were named Jean. Both men had the same number of kids...and both drove red cars

Now these studies are done to show us the effects of genetics.

I know the designer of genetics. And His name is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. He is the great "I AM"

God has designed each of us in such a way that we will have preferences that will lead us to certain choices.

Because of the fall men will never seek God

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

In order for man to choose Christ he must have a preference for Christ. But the fall removed that preference. Man is spiritually dead.He can not choose life

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Note here that Jesus says a man cannot SEE the kingdom of God. Man can not desire or choose what he can not see

So God gives those that are His a New heart

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

God then gives us a heart that will desire Him.. A heart that can see Him and choose Him...

Our will was put in bondage in Eden. The will we have is the will of Adam. Only the new birth gives us a truly free will. The desire and the will to choose Christ

I find it so interesting that people resent the idea that God has foreordained our eternity. If our father so loved us to foreordain our present, how much more important is our eternity?

regardless of how or why we pray, we do not have the power to change God's will. For example, someone earnestly praying for the healing of a loved one suffering from cancer does not in and of itself ensure that recovery is inevitable. I have known people who actually believe that if you pray for healing and it wasn't granted, you didn't pray hard enough, long enough, or faithfully enough.

We can't change God's will, but some things may be granted ONLY because we are obedient to the call to pray in specific situations. This really emphasizes how closely God is united with believers. Sometimes, God may want many believers to be united in prayer, so that many can give thanks for petitions that are granted. This also brings the believers closer to one another, as they join their prayers together. If "results" do not come, that's not because of a failure of prayer. God only asks that we pray, and the results, whatever they may be, are up to Him. The important thing is to be obedient to the call of prayer.

The Calvinist/predestination vs Armenian etc. issue like many others in THE CHURCH will probably turn out to have a different mix of BOTH/AND validity than anyone could anticipate.

ALL of us see dimly in the glass.

You folk have settled on one side of this issue. Others of us have settled on the other side.

Maturity is sometimes measured by the amount of paradox or conflicting evidence or even confusion one can handle responsibly, productively, peacably, rationally.

Many people need to have all the little details all tidied up in some sort of predictable box in order to feel safe, secure, comfortable . . . true for people on both side. However, one side has the hazard that such a need can quickly and easily become overblown and blinding to SOME things God might want to share with such individuals. Though this also happens on the other side, the philosophical/theological perspective of the other side does not inherently lend itself to such a result.

It could be said quite reasonably that over emotionalism; worshipping at the altar of emotions; proud displays of emotionally loaded actions/events; etc. can blind those on that side to their pride or the weakness of being led around by somewhat fickle emotions far too often.

One great pastor I once had commented that he thanked God we were saved by faith and not feelings. But he also sure thanked God for the feelings God triggered every so often.

We all have a measure of free will. God The Father fiercely protects it against one and all within the context of that rule of free will He set up. I know, I've tried in ages past to blunt some people's choice options when I felt they were taking themselves and loved ones off the deep end in very destructive ways--and they were. But suggestion and coercion can be very different things.

An interesting paradox is that the Ultimate Commander In Chief usually limits Himself to subtle communications, gentle communications, encouragements, subtle warnings--rarely commanding. On occasion He thunders.

On the other hand, satan is eager to command, insist, threaten, use fear and real and unearned guilt--to coerce every way he can think of and to instill, install and blanket with as much heavy handed control as he can manipulate one and all into. He knows then that rebellion is sure to follow.

Some of us because of our inadequate parenting the first 1-8 years of life have a pretty strong addiction to control orientations. Churches on all sides of many theological issues are full of control freaks. And, almost any theological position can be bent to the service of a control freak if they are clever enough. Some theological positions are tailor made to do that with . . . just as some group, audiance/leader contexts even some supernatural demonstrations of authentic moves of Holy Spirit seem tailor made to do that with--from the perspective of the control freak at hand.

God The Father and our Lord and Savior by His Spirit slice through all that control freak and other garbage most easily when we are walking hand in hand, earnestly becoming ever more sensitive and obedient to that still small voice--to The Master who declares as fact that MY SHEEP KNOW MY ****VOICE****.

In terms of free will--to the degree we do NOT have free will, then we have no responsibility for the choice. To the degree we have free-will, we have responsibility for the choice.

As Viktor Frankel says--there's no freedom without responsibility. It's also true, there's no responsibility without freedom.

May all of us walk closely enough to The Lord that He will say well done for how we responded to His Still Small Voice.