Spurgeon's View of the MILLENNIUM

Pilgrim Pub. ^ | MARK A. MCNEIL

[xzins]

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CONFUSED ABOUT SPURGEON'S PROPHETIC VIEWS?

— WELL, NO LONGER!  HERE IS...

. Charles Haddon Spurgeon's VIEW OF THE
MILLENNIUM
	Annotated Summary by
	MARK A. MCNEIL

"I am not now going into millennial theories, or into any speculation as to dates. I do not know anything at all about such things, and I am not sure that I am called to spend my time in such researches. I am rather called to minister the gospel than to open prophecy. Those who are wise in such things doubtless prize their wisdom, but I have not the time to acquire it, nor any inclination to leave soul-winning pursuits for less arousing themes. I believe it is a great deal better to leave many of these promises, and many of these gracious out-looks of believers, to exercise their full force upon our minds, without depriving them of their simple glory by aiming to discover dates and figures. Let this be settled, however, that if there be meaning in words, Israel is yet to be restored. Israel is to have a SPIRITUAL RESTORATION or a CONVERSION."

[from The Restoration & Conversion of the Jews MTP Vol 10, Year 1864, pg. 429, Ezekiel 37:1-10 (age 30)]

INTRODUCTION

There has been some considerable difference of opinion regarding the position that C. H. Spurgeon, the great Baptist preacher from the 19th century, held in the area of Eschatology — regarding the doctrine of the Millennium. Each of the three major divisions within this area of doctrine have proponents who claim Spurgeon as one of their own. Many times authors claim a different millennial view than what Spurgeon actually believed.

It is not our task to sort out the arguments for each view. Such an assignment would take a very large volume (many are available) and the issue would still not be solved for all. We would simply like to define the basic positions and then demonstrate from Spurgeon's own words which one view he held.

PREMILLENNIALISM

The first view regarding the Millennium is that of PREMILLENNIALISM. The prefix, "Pre," denotes "before." The prefix is telling us at what point in relationship to the millennium that Christ will come. This view holds that our Lord will Literally return before a 1,000-year reign of Christ begins. The millennium of Revelation 20 is taken to be literal. If not literal, it at least is speaking of an indefinite period of time following the coming of Christ during which there will be perfect peace on the earth.

Within the premillennialist camp, there have come to be two identifiable views: the "dispensationalist" position, and the "historic" position. For further information defending each of these views, one should consult Reese's The Approaching Advent of Christ [historic] and Dwight Pentecost's Things to Come [dispensational]. Though the differences between the two are important, it is not within the scope of our purpose here to delve into such matters.

AMILLENNIALISM

The second view is called AMILLENNIALISM, or sometimes called "realized eschatology". The prefix, "A-," means "no". This would suggest that those who hold this view do not believe in a millennium. This is somewhat misleading, however. This view is the the product of a consistent Spiritual interpretation of prophetic literature. To those, the millennium is not some future physical reign, but the present reign of Christ in the hearts of believers. The "millennium" is an indefinite period of time (the present age) after which Christ will physically return. Prophecy in the Church, by Oswald Allis, is a standard work for the amillennial position.

This is the position of the Roman Catholic Church, also many other Protestant denominations. It grew out of St. Augustine's spiritualizing of these issues in his writings, and the tendency of many early Christian writers to see the Church as the "new Israel" and therefore the recipient of the promises of the Old Testament for the Jewish nation. Those who hold this view do not speak of the millennium as a future happening.  It is, to them, a Present Reality.

POSTMILLENNIALISM

The third, and last, major view is that of POSTMILLENNIALISM. The prefix "Post" speaks of "after." This teaching promotes the view that the physical return of Christ will Follow an actual millennium. The influence of Christianity will over-take the world for an extended period of time, then Christ will return.

This view appears to be a mixture of the principles that work to produce the first two views. It is not consistently spiritual or literal in its interpretation of the prophetic material relevant to this issue. Perhaps the foremost writing for this position today is The Millennium, by Loraine Boettner.

Spurgeon's VIEW  

With basic definitions before us, then, let's look at some quotes from Spurgeon to see what his position was on the Millennium.

"If I read the word aright, and it is honest to admit that there is much room for difference of opinion here, the day will come, when the Lord Jesus will descend from heaven with a shout, with the trump of the archangel and the voice of God. Some think that this descent of the Lord will be Post-millennial — that is, 'after the thousand years' of his reign. I CANNOT THINK SO. I conceive that the advent will be PRE-millennial — that He will come first; and then will come the millennium as the result of his personal reign upon earth. But whether or no, this much is the fact, that Christ will suddenly come, come to reign, and come to judge the earth in righteousness." [from Justification & Glory MTP Vol 11, Year 1865, pg. 249, Romans 8:30 (age 31)]

Spurgeon here specifically identifies the Postmillennial view with a clear DENIAL of any adherence to it! Those who attempt to claim Spurgeon for this viewpoint do not demonstrate their contention by referring to clear comparisons such as this one. They rather go to sermons not specifically dealing with both positions and pull out of them ideas that are "compatible" with Postmillennial thinking. This is a faulty way of proving a point, however* — especially when they meet squarely with a Spurgeon statement like the one above, and those below.

*NOTE: Furthur, a few postmillennialists (especially GARY NORTH), are guilty of misrepresenting Spurgeon constantly in articles and books; NORTH has repeatedly alleged that "Spurgeon was Postmillennial" — yet neither his supplied quotations "say" so, and/or he deliberately does not present a statement by Spurgeon that North will speculate "implies" a Postmillennial position. Our advice is to ignore anything North states regarding Spurgeon's views and Prophecy!

Again, consider Spurgeon's View here in light of 'Postmillennial' teaching...

"Paul does not paint the future with rose-colour: he is no smooth-tongued prophet of a golden age, into which this dull earth may be imagined to be glowing. There are sanguine brethren who are looking forward to everything growing better and better and better, until, at last, this present age ripens into a millennium. They will not be able to sustain their hopes, for Scripture gives them no solid basis to rest upon. We who believe that there will be no millennial reign without the King, and who expect no rule of righteousness except from the appearing of the righteous Lord, are nearer the mark. Apart from the second Advent of our Lord, the world is more likely to sink into a pandemonium than to rise into a millennium. A divine interposition seems to me the hope set before us in Scripture, and, indeed, to be the only hope adequate to the occasion. We look to the darkening down of things; the state of mankind, however improved politically, may yet grow worse and worse spiritually." [from The Form of Godliness Without the Power MTP Vol 35, Year 1889, pg. 301, 2 Timothy 3:5 (age 54)]

"We are to expect the literal advent of Jesus Christ, for he himself by his angel told us, 'This same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven,' which must mean literally and in person. We expect a reigning Christ on earth; that seems to us to be very plain, and to be put so literally that we dare not spiritualise it. We anticipate a first and a second resurrection; a first resurrection of the righteous, and a second resurrection of the ungodly, who shall be judged, condemned, and punished for ever by the sentence of the great King." [from Things to Come MTP Vol 15, Year 1869, pg. 329, 1 Corinthians 3:22 (age 35)]

Here, stress is laid upon the Literal Nature of the second coming.  Also, after this literal return is stressed a reigning upon the earth.

"We have done once for all with the foolish ideas of certain of the early heretics, that Christ's appearance upon earth was but a phantom. We know that he was really, personally, and physically here on earth. But it is not quite so clear to some persons that he is to come really, personally, and literally, the second time. I know there are some who are labouring to get rid of the fact of a personal reign, but as I take it, the coming and the reign are so connected together, that we must have a spiritual coming if we are to have a spiritual reign. Now we believe and hold that Christ shall come a second time suddenly, to raise his saints at the first judgment, and they shall reign with him afterwards. The rest of the dead live not till after the thousand years are finished. Then shall they rise from their tombs at the sounding of the trumpet, and their judgment shall come and they shall receive the deeds which they have done in their bodies." [from The Two Advents of Christ MTP Vol 8, Year 1862, pg. 39, Hebrews 9:27-28 (age 28)]

[from The Sinner's End MTP Vol 8, Year 1862, pgs. 712-713, Psalms 73:17-18 (age 28)], Spurgeon is discussing the final condition of the sinner — "Let us go on to consider their end. The day of days, that dreadful day has come. The millennial rest is over, the righteous have had their thousand years of glory upon earth."

In the quotes above, the order of events fits perfectly the PREmillennial point of view. The final end of the sinner is faced after the righteous have enjoyed a thousand years with Christ.

.
	"Our Hope is the Personal PRE-MILLENNIAL RETURN of the   Lord Jesus Christ in Glory."
	— August 1891, age 58

Of the various articles and writings by those who deny the conclusion that we feel is obvious, none that I have found bases itself on the same type of quotes we have produced (many others could have been given — see those that follow). To the contrary, their's are based on "interpreting" Spurgeon's statements apart from such quotes that we have given.

.

We feel safe in concluding, then,

that of the three views we began with,

Spurgeon expressly states that he believes in a

Literal Return of Jesus Christ

BEFORE

a Literal Millennium on the Earth.

———————————————————————————

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Written by Mark A. McNeil (Houston TX USA), B.A., M.A., & PhD. Student

Author of An Evaluation of the 'Oneness Pentecostal' Movement

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Watching and Waiting Magazine

                                          by C. W. H. Griffiths

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From the Summer 1990 issue of this magazine, C. W. H. Griffiths states Spurgeon "was a valued standard bearer for historic Pre-millennialism," and then presents an excellent article defending his Pre-millennial position.

Documenting additional quotations which we have added and expanded below —

Spurgeon (age 43) — There is moreover to be a reign of Christ. I cannot read the Scriptures without perceiving that there is to be a pre-millennial reign, as I believe, upon the earth and that there shall be new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness...

Spurgeon (age 49) — Then all His people who are alive at the time of His coming shall be suddenly transformed, so as to be delivered from all the frailties and imperfections of their mortal bodies: The dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed. Then we shall be presented spirit, soul, and body without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; in the clear and absolute perfection of our sanctified manhood, presented unto Christ Himself.

Spurgeon (age 50) — When the Lord comes there will be no more death; we who are alive and remain (as some of us may be — we cannot tell) will undergo a sudden transformation — for flesh and blood, as they are, cannot inherit the kingdom of God — and by that transformation our bodies shall be made meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light.

Spurgeon (age 52) — His coming will cause great sorrow. What does the text say about his coming? All kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Then this sorrow will be very general.

Spurgeon (age 30) [from The Restoration & Conversion of the Jews MTP Vol 10, Year 1864, pgs. 427-430, Ezekiel  37:1-10] — Under the preaching of the Word the vilest sinners can be reclaimed, the most stubborn wills can be subdued, the most unholy lives can be sanctified. When the holy "breath" comes from the four winds, when the divine Spirit descends to own the Word, then multitudes of sinners, as on Pentecost's hallowed day, stand up upon their feet, an exceeding great army, to praise the Lord their God. But, mark you, this is not the first and proper interpretation of the text; it is indeed nothing more than a very striking parallel case to the one before us. It is not the case itself; it is only a similar one, for the way in which God restores a nation is, practically, the way in which he restores an individual. The way in which Israel shall be saved is the same by which any one individual sinner shall be saved. It is not, however, the one case which the prophet is aiming at; he is looking at the vast mass of cases, the multitudes of instances to be found among the Jewish people, of gracious quickening, and holy resurrection. His first and primary intention was to speak of them, and though it is right and lawful to take a passage in its widest possible meaning, since "no Scripture is of private interpretation," yet I hold it to be treason to God's Word to neglect its primary meaning, and constantly to say — "Such-and-such is the primary meaning, but it is of no consequence, and I shall use the words for another object." The preacher of God's truth should not give up the Holy Ghost's meaning; he should take care that he does not even put it in the back ground. The first meaning of a text, the Spirit's meaning, is that which would be brought out first, and though the rest may fairly spring out of it, yet the first sense should have the chief place. Let it have the uppermost place in the synagogue, let it be looked upon as at least not inferior, either in interest or importance, to any other meaning which may come out of the text.

The meaning of our text, as opened up by the context, is most evidently, if words mean anything, first, that there shall be a political restoration of the Jews to their own land and to their own nationality; and then, secondly, there is in the text, and in the context, a most plain declaration, that there shall be a spiritual restoration, a conversion in fact, of the tribes of Israel.

The promise is that they shall renounce their idols, and, behold, they have already done so. "Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols." Whatever faults the Jew may have besides, he certainly has no idolatry. "The Lord thy God is one God," is a truth far better conceived by the Jew than by any other man on earth except the Christian. Weaned for ever from the worship of all images, of whatever sort, the Jewish nation has now become infatuated with traditions or duped by philosophy. She is to have, however, instead of these delusions, a spiritual religion: she is to love her God. "They shall be my people, and I will be their God." The unseen but omnipotent Jehovah is to be worshipped in spirit and in truth by his ancient people; they are to come before him in his own appointed way, accepting the Mediator whom their sires rejected; coming into covenant relation with God, for so our text tells us — "I will make a covenant of peace with them," and Jesus is our peace, therefore we gather that Jehovah shall enter into the covenant of grace with them, that covenant of which Christ is the federal head, the substance, and the surety. They are to walk in God's ordinances and statutes, and so exhibit the practical effects of being united to Christ who hath given them peace. All these promises certainly imply that the people of Israel are to be converted to God, and that this conversion is to be permanent, for the tabernacle of God is to be with them, the Most High is, in an especial manner, to have his sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore; so that whatever nations may apostatize and turn from the Lord in these latter days, the nation of Israel never can, for she shall be effectually and permanently converted, the hearts of the fathers shall be turned with the hearts of the children unto the Lord their God, and they shall be the people of God, world without end.

We look forward, then, for these two things. I am not going to theorize upon which of them will come first, whether they shall be restored first, and converted afterwards, or converted first, and then restored. They are to be restored, and they are to be converted too. Let the Lord send these blessings in his own order, and we shall be well content whichever way they shall come. We take this for our joy and our comfort, that this thing shall be, and that both in the spiritual and in the temporal throne, the King Messiah shall sit, and reign among his people gloriously.

Spurgeon (age 30) [from The Lamb — the Light MTP Vol 10, Year 1864, pg. 439, Revelation 21:23] — (Spurgeon says of the millennial earth), They shall not say one to another, "Know the Lord: for all shall know him, from the least to the greatest." There may be even in that period certain solemn assemblies and Sabbath-days, but they will not be of the same kind as we have now; for the whole earth will be a temple, every day will be a Sabbath, the avocations of men will all be priestly, they shall be a nation of priests — distinctly so, and they shall day without night serve God in his temple, so that everything to which they set their hand shall be a part of the song which shall go up to the Most High. Oh! blessed day. Would God it had dawned, when these temples should be left, because the whole world should be a temple for God. But whatever may be the splendours of that day — and truly here is a temptation to let our imagination revel — however bright may be the walls set with chalcedony and amethyst, however splendid the gates which are of one pearl, whatever may be the magnificence set forth by the "streets of gold," this we know, that the sum and substance, the light and glory of the whole will be the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, "for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof." Now, I want the Christian to meditate over this. In the highest, holiest, and happiest era that shall ever dawn upon this poor earth, Christ is to be her light. When she puts on her wedding garments, and adorns herself as a bride is adorned with jewels, Christ is to be her glory and her beauty. There shall be no ear-rings in her ears made with other gold than that which cometh from his mine of love; there shall be no crown set upon her brow fashioned by any other hand than his hands of wisdom and of grace. She sits to reign, but it shall be upon his throne; she feeds, but it shall be upon his bread; she triumphs, but it shall be because of the might which ever belongs to him who is the Rock of Ages. Come then, Christian, contemplate for a moment thy beloved Lord. Jesus, in a millennial age, shall be the light and the glory of the city of the new Jerusalem. Observe then, that Jesus makes the light of the millennium, because his presence will be that which distinguishes that age from the present. That age is to be akin to paradise. Paradise God first made upon earth, and paradise God will last make. Satan destroyed it; and God will never have defeated his enemy until he has re-established paradise, until once again a new Eden shall bless the eyes of God's creatures. Now, the very glory and privilege of Eden I take to be not the river which flowed through it with its four branches, nor that it came from the land of Havilah which hath dust of gold — I do not think the glory of Eden lay in its grassy walks, or in the boughs bending with luscious fruit — but its glory lay in this, that the "Lord God walked in the garden in the cool of the day." Here was Adam's highest privilege, that he had companionship with the Most High. In those days angels sweetly sang that the tabernacle of God was with man, and that he did dwell amongst them. Brethren, the paradise which is to be regained for us will have this for its essential and distinguishing mark, that the Lord shall dwell amongst us. This is the name by which the city is to be called — Jehovah Shammah, the Lord is there. It is true we have the presence of Christ in the Church now — "Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world." We have the promise of his constant indwelling: "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." But still that is vicariously by his Spirit, but soon he is to be personally with us. That very man who once died upon Calvary is to live here. He — that same Jesus — who was taken up from us, shall come in like manner as he was taken up from the gazers of Galilee. Rejoice, rejoice, beloved, that he comes, actually and really comes; and this shall be the joy of that age, that he is among his saints, and dwelleth in them, with them, and talketh and walketh in their midst.

"If I read the word aright, and it is honest to admit that there is much room for difference of opinion here, the day will come, when the Lord Jesus will descend from heaven with a shout, with the trump of the archangel and the voice of God. Some think that this descent of the Lord will be Post-millennial — that is, 'after the thousand years' of his reign. I CANNOT THINK SO. I conceive that the advent will be PRE-millennial — that He will come first; and then will come the millennium as the result of his personal reign upon earth. But whether or no, this much is the fact, that Christ will suddenly come, come to reign, and come to judge the earth in righteousness." [from Justification & Glory MTP Vol 11, Year 1865, pg. 249, Romans 8:30 (age 31)]

[CCWoody]

It is irrelavent what it means to me for the Lord to rule with a rod of iron and to dash them into pieces. It is what the Bible says that this means and I just can't imagine that you are now telling me that the Millennium of peace, where the swords are beat into plowshares, must be ruled with a rod of iron and the Lord must dash them into pieces to keep all the citizens "obedient" as you have said.

Of course, I'd expect that the Lord must rule like this while His kingdom is full of offensive things and persons. Yet, I have the sure word of the Lord that at the end of this age, the age where the Son of Man sows the good seed and Satan sows the Tares, The Lord will have all things offensive cast into the furnace of fire (Mat 13:40). Unfortunately for your Millennium, this occurs 1000 years too soon.

[kjam22]

Except for 1 important guy I think it is. The guy that touches the ball on every single offensive play. (Not the center)

[xzins]

Woody, there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ on earth. Rev 5:10.

It will be with a "rod of iron." He will maintain the peace.

The Christ, who was "caught up to the throne of God," will return and will "rule them with a rod of iron."

After that rule, Satan will be released for a short season. He will deceive again. He and those who follow him, gog and magog, will be eternally cast into the lake of fire.

(BTW, is the "lake of fire" figurative, symbolic, phsical, metaphoric.....what in the amil view?)

[xzins]

What was that nat'l champ q'back's name? He loved to win, didn't he? He was always looking for a way to make it happen. In that regard he reminded me of Joe Montana.

Weak q'back = no Big12 championship. Therefore, no nat'l championship.

[xzins]

. The guy that touches the ball on every single offensive play. (Not the center)

Ahhhhhhhh....the REFEREE!! (LOL)

It is easier to win with them on the team, isn't it? (Chuckle)

BTW, I say that as a Kansas State alum (Masters degree) who loves to see the Big8 win. (I have yet to accept the Big12 ruining a perfectly good conference....who wants Tezas, anyway?)

[Matchett-PI]

"..Or to use the very interesting language of Revelation 20:4, you just have to be one of those who has been beheaded--as all Christians are."

That's because the head of the old man is Satan until he is beheaded by Christ (regenerated).

At that time he obtains a new head ---- the Lord AND Savior Jesus Christ..

Jesus Christ was the head of "the church in the wilderness" (into which we were grafted) and he will continue the process of building his church [Eph.1:4] until all the rest of the elect are gathered in during these 'times of the Gentiles'.

Moses was one of the elect in the OT who was chosen to be in Christ before the foundation of the world. That automatically put him 'in the church'.

The Gospel itself says that one is saved by union with Christ ONLY. There are not two Brides of Christ / two peoples of God.

[Woodkirk]

So when does Zechariah 14:16 occur --- before or after the
earth is burned up? You have a 50/50 chance of being right on
something this morning. Take it ---

[RnMomof7]

Jean is a sweetie...as are his wife and baby....no bitterness there xzins...

I would adopt him...but we might have some doctrinal differences:>))))))

[RnMomof7]

Back months ago now, I pledged with "dittojed" and others not to engage in personal attacks. I don't know if I'm perfect on that score but it is the right answer. Throughout this thread, you will find me referring to "amils" or to "premils" or to "postmils." The point is to go after ideas, not to go after people.

I did not sign onto that right? I can still call you Father X right? :>))

[xzins]

"..Or to use the very interesting language of Revelation 20:4, you just have to be one of those who has been beheaded--as all Christians are." That's because the head of the old man is Satan until he is beheaded by Christ (regenerated).

C'mon, matchett, you don't really believe in allegorizing to that degree do you? It becomes unintelligible after a while.

Behead = regenerate?

satan = old man?

Like Reagan used to say, will someone please give me the "codeword" for "states rights?"

If beheading isn't beheading and satan isn't satan, will someone please give me the codewords so I can talk about those two subjects in the appropriate code?

[RnMomof7]

and I just can't imagine that you are now telling me that the Millennium of peace, where the swords are beat into plowshares, must be ruled with a rod of iron and the Lord must dash them into pieces to keep all the citizens "obedient" as you have said.



Good point Woody

[xzins]

I did not sign onto that right? I can still call you Father X right? :>))

Correct, you did not sign on.

You can call me Father X...but only after you kiss my ring. LOL.

Until then call me, Z. It's been my nickname for years....since high school.

[RnMomof7]

OK Guys I need some clarification here...I am pretty end times dumb..the whole topic has been a yawn to me untill the last two weeks...It was always my assumption that the millennium would be a time when only the saints were on earth..

So now I am greatly confused by the discussion which then includes will babies be born during the millennium and the need of God to rule wirh an IRON rod,,.....so This dumb blond that has TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many senior moments would like each of the posters to list the order of events as THEY believe scripture outlines them

Please list them 1 to ??? in order with at least one scripture citation...

This will help me understand all the confusion I am reading ...

thanks

terry

[Matchett-PI]

"So when does Zechariah 14:16 occur --- before or after the earth is burned up? You have a 50/50 chance of being right on something this morning. Take it ---"

Let's see.... aren't you one of the ones in the amen corner with xzins, et.al, when ftD interpreted the Scriptures to say that [a] angels came down from heaven and had sexual relations with women on earth -- [b] the enemies of God who stay home on "The Day of the Lord" will not be killed -- [c] even though they're not goats, the sheep will also be ruled over with a rod of iron -- [d] the Father has a Bride (Isreal) and the Son has a Bride (the Church) which answers the sticky problem of Christ being a bigomist otherwise -- [e] etc.,etc.

In light of the foregoing, I hope you don't think any orthodox Christians will consider your 'interpretation' of Zech 14 to legitimately belong anywhere other than in a comic book. LOL

The Scriptures interpret the Scriptures and they teach this:

Zech 1: 1-21 is an apocalyptic description of "the day of the Lord".

During "the day of the Lord" Jerusalem, the figure of God's elect / the church, after suffering tribulation all during the "times of the Gentiles" (called the "church age" or "the millennium") while Satan is bound, comes under even more tribulation after Satan is loosed again "for a season" just before the return of Christ.

The elect (Jerusalem) will come under siege [Zech 14:1-3]; plague [Zech 14:12,15], and riot [Zech 14:13].

But she will be rescued by the Lord [Zech 14:4-5].

And the Lord will bless her greatly [Zech 14:6-11,14,16-21] forever.

[Woodkirk]

Well for starters, the saints are promised that they will rule --- rule what or whom? each other? what kind of rule is that? And then with a rod of iron --- why would you need a rod of iron for resurrected saints?

There are those on earth who are not in the Valley of Megiddo when Jesus returns to the Mount of Olives. Zechariah 14:16 tells you what they do "from year to year" for a thousand years.

There will also be those on earth who heeded the warning of the angel not to worship the beast or receive his mark. Many will be beheaded, others persecuted, and others will go into hiding. God will keep his promise to them for heeding his warning.

The fact that there are swords to be beat into plowshares indicates that there is still a warring mentality that has to be overcome amongst the survivors of the Tribulation. Among the survivors will be those who wanted to survive and be part of the kingdom of God, but not under the King of Israel and his saints. He will reign until he has brought these under his authority. Those who will not submit to his authority wil be separated out as "goats".

The fact that when Satan is loosed and he is able to gather together an army to come against the saints of God after Jesus has been ruling for a thousand years is indicative of the perpetuation of a "rebellious nature" still prevalent within the heart of many as far as a thousand years into the Millenium. These can't possibly be resurrected saints, but they can be Tribulation survivors or descendants thereof, with a short memory and a shorter future.

[CCWoody]

"Why do nations rage,..."? The nations set themselves in a visible agitation against the Lord and His Anointed. The word with which Paul renders this in the Greek denotes rage, pride, and restiveness, as of horses that neigh, and rush into the battle. "Why do the heathen plot a vain thing?" It is a vain thing; their hands could not perform it. "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying, 'Let us break Their bonds in pieces and cast away Their cords from us.'"

What! O ye kings, do ye think yourselves Samsons? and are the bands of Omnipotence but as green withs before you? Do you dream that you shall snap to pieces and destroy the mandates of God—the decrees of the Most High—as if they were but tow? and do ye say, "Let us cast away their cords from us?" Yes! There are monarchs who have spoken thus, and there are still rebels upon thrones. However mad the resolution to revolt from God, it is one in which man has persevered ever since his creation, and he continues in it to this very day. ~ Spurgeon

And thus, when Jesus tells the Pharisees the parable of the wicked vinedressers, they knew that He was speaking of them. They imagined that they could kill Him and take His inheritance for themselves. Verse 8 speaks plainly that the nations are the inheritance of the Lord.

So, the Father laughs at them and shall hold them in derision. Then He shall speak to them and distress them for that which they sought to prevent, the Lord has already accomplished: "I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion." The Lord reigns from Zion, and our glad lips should show our praises to the King of kings and Lord of lords. It is Zion's glory and joy that her King is in her. Jesus sits upon the throne of grace, and the throne of power in the midst of his church. Let her citizens be glad in Him and let her foes cry out in terror.

Therefore, let us hear the decree from the King:

• "I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, 'You are my Son, today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will give You the nations for Your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for Your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.'"

The Father has laughed at the counsel of the wicked and now the Son will declare His rights to Sovereignty. He declares to His very enemies that they are nothing but His possession, to dispose of as He will. And so, not only has the Father given Him the rights to rule, but also the means and power to accomplish that end. The Lord has in His hand a rod of iron which He will use to dash into pieces and break those who will not submit to Him.

And with this in mind, David gives counsel to the nations:

• "Be wise, O kings; be instructed, you judges of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and you perish in the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him."

The Father has already given all nations to the Son. He, even today, rules them with a rod of iron. Therefore, you kings of the earth serve the Lord with fear and rejoice with trembling. Let there be a certain flesh trembling fear in our holy reverence and joy in the Lord. If we do not pay our respect to the Son we will perish when His wrath is kindled.

The Father has committed all judgment to the Son and His throne is prepared for judgment. We are told that when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. And all nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another. He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come you blessed." Then He will say to those on His left hand, "Depart you cursed." And the cursed will go into the everlasting fire.

[the_doc]

Actually, I would prefer to elaborate on the idea of beheading in this way: The death of Christ Himself was a kind of capital punishment of the Body of Christ. God's elect undergo this capital (beheading) experience one by one in the vicarious way of conversion.

It is incidentally true that the old head (Satan) is removed from the Body of Christ. But this is because Christ was made a kind of serpent in the transaction of His death.

I believe that it's no accident that this idea of the capital punishment of the Body works so well in Revelation 20. The Body idea is very very important in the New Testament (in ways which are sometimes overlooked, I might add). And as Arthur Pink pointed out in his commentary on Hebrews, the death of Christ really was the capital (beheading) punishment of the entire Body.

Notice that the above discussion would automatically explain why the saved souls in Revelation 20 are depicted as beheaded rather than burned or torn apart by lions or run through with a sword.

[CCWoody]

It was always my assumption that the millennium would be a time when only the saints were on earth..

I was told that as well, but we have xzins and Woodkirk both telling us that it is not so. And nobdysfool keeps hounding me for misrepresenting PreMillennialism. So, it would seem that we have many brands of PreMils, who can't even agree with each other what the Millennium of Peace will be like.

[RnMomof7]

Good I was afraid ..I thought I had to be nice to you...*grin*

[RnMomof7]

So the order is the Tribulation...some beheaded for not worshipping the beast...then the rapture...the return of Christ to rule with the saints?

Could ya just list the events?like 1)antichrist, 2) tribulation 3)rapture 4)Christ return....and so forth