Then the schismatics and the orthodox Catholics fought. It was bloody as Hell. That battle still wages, but its one that, unfortunately must be fought. The remnant must survive. They must save the faith.
Now the orthodox Catholics fight the orthodox Catholics, over stupid misunderstandings, pride, and refusal to admit when one is wrong, or when ones' approach, while orthodox, was used as a weapon, not an instrument of Christ.
God have Mercy on us.
And so ends the Fellowship of the Ring?
What the Hell has happened to our Cathoilic Caucus, dammit?
How can the orthodox remnant survive, how can they save the Faith, when we bloody each other on this battlefield, and beat Christ's plowshares into swords?
God have Mercy on us all.
Frankly, the dust-up was a bit of childish pique which tantrum was only compounded by the bits of rotting compost some rained down from the bleachers.
I've seen much worse ... though, admittedly, such ugliness usually was the result of "Neverending" sorts of enmities.
I think folks may be wrapped a little tight of late and I don't think it's any secret that -- generally -- decorum and quality are prices this place has paid for its popularity as the signal:noise deteriorated somewhat.
It is a bit depressing, I'll admit, to see the infantile behavior one associates with most threads in the main forum infecting a strictly Catholic thread in the Religion Ghetto. I see no reason it's got to become a habit, however.
Trust folks keep their eyes on the ball in the future. Discord is a sign of end times. I'd just as soon do my part to put them off as long as possible. =)
I don't know how you define the "orthodox remnant" or who gave you permission to define it. I don't think the time has arrived that any group can correctly and with the proper amount of humility, declare itself to be the remnant.
I don’t recall any like this though, where things devolved all the way among Catholics. In recent months a group of us here began to get pretty close and friendly, some even talking about a Catholic caucus. The reality though is that the FR and the caucus include Catholics with very different views, and we really aren’t united on anything. When the Church goes through hard times like these, fault lines show, people’s words get a little more blunt, people’s skin gets a little thinner, people all over get more defensive. A lot of us feel a great deal of concern over the Church and its direction right now. Personal attacks increase, and its hard not to take offense, its hard to keep that little note of sarcasm from springing into your response, its hard to be charitable to those who have offended you. I can easily say all of these things apply to me, and I think they apply to most of us on this thread right now. I think I’ve seen nearly all of you say things a bit out of character, as have I.
I tend to think this is all natural. As painful as it may be, most of us are under extra stress right now, though we often have different reasons for it. Some of us face financial pressures. Layoffs or fears of layoffs, cash flow crunches, debt. Others are remembering September 11 and those who lost their lives; the possibility of another war, our soldiers’ lives and civilian suffering. For others, the turmoil in the Church strikes at home, the abuse crisis and its ongoing fallout, the modernist abuses, Bishops, priests, etc. All the fault lines become apparent from these things. Others have had family members pass on, are bringing new children into families, are looking at moving, changing jobs, changing parishes. I doubt there are many of us who aren’t a little bit more affected by at least some of these things right now. There is a lot more tension in the air.
The result of that is some of the hostility towards our own. It is pretty common in society in general right now. The Catholics on FR aren’t normally like this. We don’t normally eat our own on these threads like some of the other groups do. Many outsiders have recognized this in the past. They have recognized that Catholics are different, that as a group they treat each other and treat outsiders alike with charity.
These things said, we have always been a diverse group. We have always disagreed with each other on these threads, and these disagreements sometimes become more pointed when one or both of the posters are under some stress, whether from FR related things or things outside of FR. This is no reason to panic. We do need see each other as God’s children at these times. I didn’t learn things about the faith by coming here and having everyone agree with me, and I hope that never happens. I learned, to the extent I have learned, when people debated with me. Sometimes I was right, sometimes wrong. Some did a better job of educating me than others, especially those who did so with the utmost charity. I am forever in their debt, especially for the charitable rebukes.
We have never shared a single common goal here on FR. Some come here to debate. Some come here to evangelize, whether it be the faithless, other Christians, or other Catholics. Some come to learn. Others to talk politics, and from time to time talk religion. Some come for fellowship. Others for a chance to have their ideas tested. We will never be a cohesive group that agrees on much of anything, much less everything. To whatever extent we were a group to start with, we won’t even stay a group for very long. Some people will come, others will go. Some of the Catholics who were synonymous with Catholicism on FR when I joined aren’t here anymore; some are here only sporadically. Some will take breaks, others will leave entirely.
If FR isn’t bringing you closer to God, and especially if it pulls you away, take a break. Come back if it is appropriate, even if just to say hi from time to time, its always nice to see people again. I’m probably not a good example, but FR always does fine when I’m gone, and all the Catholics manage without me. How many even notice my absence? Few, I suspect, can name the last time I took an extended break. (This disappoints my pride to no end, of course.)
The Catholic Church is a very big place. There is a lot of room in it for disagreement. There are some things that are non-negotiable, certainly, and some positions that are harmful to the faith. But most people do not hold to those things. Have some tolerance on others who hold a belief you think is wrong. They may be wrong, they may be harming the faith, but give them a fair chance to understand their error, as each of us have them.
A suggestion, feel free to ignore it. There is nothing to be gained in any further blame on this thread. Who started what or is at fault doesn’t matter any more. The battle lines are drawn, and there won’t be any traitors at this point. Further war just brings further bloodshed. Don’t reply to any posts in the battle, leave them lie.
Rather, apologize to the person, publicly or by freepermail. It doesn’t matter who started it, or even if you weren’t the one in the wrong. If you were uncharitable, just swallow your pride and apologize. This is probably the only thing I’ve managed to learn in marriage. Saying your sorry changes the situation, and allows the other person to consider your viewpoint whereas before they couldn’t hear you at all.
One last thing. We are all baptized here. As such, we are all members of Christ’s body. Treat each other as you would Christ. Sometimes that necessitates hard words, but be clear about why you say them – you should believe they will bring the subject or others closer to God.
Above all, may God bless you all. Good night,
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
patent +AMDG