EPISCOPAL SCHISM

Associated Press | September 5, 2002 | BILL BERGSTROM

[RnMomof7]

Maybe God is doing some purging, just not the way that liberals think.

I hope so!

[sweetliberty]

Have you been in the Diocese of Colorado long enough to have known Bishop Frey?

[r9etb]

He was gone before I moved here. My rector likes him very much, however.

[sweetliberty]

While there is found in the Episcopal church a deep reverence for Mary, you will not find much of the veneration of Mary that is prevalent in the Roman church.

[trad_anglican]

Here's a revelation. Do you also keep consecrated hosts in a Tabernacle?

Yes

We do not believe in a transient real presence. While many Anglicans are uncomfortable with Transubstantiation, we believe that Jesus is truly present in the blessed sacrament.

and 23.How to say the Rosary (different methods) Also interesting. So, the protestant posters on these threads limit their "Mary bashing" strictly for the Catholics.

Anglicans do not consider the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception to be doctrinal. Many Anglicans observe these holy days and Marian devotions are quite common. You can see on ebay that Anglican rosaries are in common use, too, as there are always many for sale. We consider the Marian doctrines to be "pious beliefs." None are required to observe them (unless their religious order requires it) but all are free to and in may cases encouraged to.

As far as the "Mary bashing" goes, I don't think Anglicans in general go as far as Romans in Marian devotions. I am not aware of any talk of co-redemptrix among Anglicans.

[sweetliberty]

While the traditional origin of the Church of England, the forerunner of the Anglican Communion, is held to be established on the basis of King Henry VIII's desire to divorce and remarry with the approval of the church, it was really not quite so simple. While varying degrees of practices common to the Roman church were retained, such as the veneration of saints, the practice was generally considered heretical by the protestant movement which was sweeping Europe. Saints were revered and celebrated and still are, but with varying emphasis from one area to another, but worship and prayer is reserved for God alone, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There were other breaks as well. Sacramental confession for example, is available in the Episcopal church, but is not required as in the Catholic church, a general confession of the body of Christ being preferred. The tradition of purgatory was much maligned as well at the time of the Reformation because of the rampant abuses within the church, in such practices as the sale of indulgences, as if mere man could buy passage to heaven for a loved one gone before. This practice was rejected outright.

There are today wide variations in practice in the Episcopal church dealing with these ancient traditions. In many cases a local church may adopt practices that may be acceptable, but not a part of canon law. We have many things in common with the Catholic church because more than any other church to develop its own identity during the Reformation, the Anglican (I use the terms Anglican and Episcopal interchangably) church developed in more of a parallel way than others who openly rebeled against the Catholic church and in many cases threw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak. The Anglican church seems to be more of an evolution than a rebellion, rejecting those doctrines and practices that it deemed unscriptural while retaining that which it considered to be of proven and lasting value.

[trad_anglican]

Again, excuse the great ignorance ... but would someone please explain all of this to me? Do Anglican's believe in the Real Presence? Do Anglican's pray to Mary? Do Anglican's pray to the saints? What separates Roman Catholics from Anglicans?

Please forgive me for responding to this without first reading other responses.

Anglicans believe in real presence but many reject the doctrine of Transubstantiation. I know this causes confusion for RC's because they don't separate the two, but Anglicans do. Generally the Anglican position is that Augustine was right about it, and that the medeival schoolmen took it too far.

Anglicans pray to Mary and the saints. Anglicans pray for the departed.

What separates Anglicans from Rome is foremost a disagreement on Papal authority. Secondary are the Marian doctrines of Assumption and Immaculate Conception. Anglicans don't object to them per se, only to their doctrinal status. Another thing that separates us is that Rome, officialy, considers Anglican orders to be "absolutely null and utterly void." There are other issues to be sure, but these are the biggies.

[sweetliberty]

"they were quite opposed to the authority of the Pope, and I suppose that really is the rub, so to speak"

Right. I guess I thought of that as being so obvious that I didn't mention it. The pope is generally very highly respected in the Episcopal church, but no one is considered to be on equal par with Scripture, which is our sole authority.

[sweetliberty]

He was one of a kind, a very spiritual and charismatic man. Do you know if he is still at the seminary in Pennsylvania? Who is your rector?

[Siobhan]

I thought Anglican authority rested on Scripture, Tradition, and Reason?

[trad_anglican]

Sorry, for that last bit. The bottom line is that a big chunk of Anglicans would make GREAT ROman Catholics. And a bunch of our liberal Catholics ought to go be Episcopalians.

LOL! Give that Siobhan a Cohiba!

[sweetliberty]

" Immaculate Conception to be doctrinal"

I was always taught the Immaculate Conception. And I am not particularly high church.

[trad_anglican]

I was always taught the Immaculate Conception. And I am not particularly high church.

I don't think it's so much of a high church low church issue. I was raised in a high church tradition and was never taught the Immaculate Conception. In fact, I have some real misgivings about it personally.

[Siobhan]

The late Reverend Professor John Maquarrie talks about an Anglican approach to Mary as co-redemptrix in his book "Mary for All Christians". As a Roman Catholic, I found it very interesting and the Ecumenical Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary (at the end of the book) very valuable and very beautiful.

[sweetliberty]

Tradition and reason are based in Scripture, which is the final authority.

[RonF]

A bishop in the Episcopal church has authority to temporarily inhibit a priest in his Diocese, but he can't permanently do so without a trial under Canon law. To make a long story short, Fr. Moyer has certainly given Bp. Bennison proper grounds to do the former, but by doing the latter, Bp. Bennison has exceeded his authority. Presiding Bishop Frank T. Griswold needs to move on this.

[sweetliberty]

Here's a link that gives a brief overview of Anglicanism.

[RonF]

Ah, no: the Anglican Catholic Church is, I believe, an alternative to the ECUSA; they believe themselves to be an Anglican church, and holds itself separate from the Roman Catholic Church. Whereas the Anglican Rite is part of the Roman Catholic Church, under authority of the Pope, who are allowed to use a rite that is very similar to the ECUSA rite, altered as little as possible to make it conform to Roman Catholic beliefs.

[trad_anglican]

Here's a link that gives a brief overview of Anglicanism.

And a suprisingly good one at that!

[Siobhan]

Many thanks, sweetliberty.