[tpaine]

But as for real world ethical lessons - they only exist if you ALREADY have an idea of what is right and wrong (a morality).
126 - yb
_________________________________

Absurd statement, easily demonstrated false by our earliest 'ethical' experiences.
IE - A toddler hurts a peer, and is 'hurt' in return, either by the other child, or disciplined by an adult. -- Neither child has attained the 'age of reason' or a sense of right or wrong, yet they both soon learn a "real world ethical lesson".

-- Do harm onto others, and they will do harm onto you.

Thus, -- Moralities DO exist, irregardless of beliefs. They are a product of real world cause & effect.
We need no 'god' to tell us what common sense illustrates.

[yendu bwam]

Thus, -- Moralities DO exist, irregardless of beliefs. They are a product of real world cause & effect. We need no 'god' to tell us what common sense illustrates.

No, tpaine. What about when a kid (a bully) for an example, learns to hurt others without getting hurt in return? Stalin hurt (massacred) millions, and did quite well for himself.

[yendu bwam]

Moralities DO exist, irregardless of beliefs. They are a product of real world cause & effect. We need no 'god' to tell us what common sense illustrates.

No, moralites ARE a belief about what is right and wrong. You may think you do not need God to help you with what is right and wrong. That is your prerogative.

[yendu bwam]

Do harm onto others, and they will do harm onto you.

For many, tpaine, 'ethics' goes beyond self-protection. As an example, many people (myself included) believe abortion is morally wrong - even though the about-to-be-born fetus can't possibly rise up and smite you.