[scottiewottie]

"But if easy creation out of nothing is what you want, try this: virtual particle-antiparticle pairs are constantly popping into spontaneous existence out of the vacuum, and quickly annihilating each other again. Every cubic nanometer of the universe seeths with them. We know they are there because we can measure their effect very precisely."

Seems then we should call it, "not really a vacuum". This is where ID parts with CS, CS needs an origin where there is nothing. ID is perfectly content to conclude there has never been a time when there was nothing. An absolute vacuum has never existed.

[Physicist]

Seems then we should call it, "not really a vacuum". This is where ID parts with CS, CS needs an origin where there is nothing. ID is perfectly content to conclude there has never been a time when there was nothing. An absolute vacuum has never existed.

I don't know where you get your ideas about what the vacuum "should be", but there's no support for them in physics. In the vacuum, whatever is physically possible is compulsory. I don't know what you mean by "absolute vacuum", but as you use the term, it seems to mean "non-existence". "Non-existence has never existed" is hardly a point of meaningful debate.

But at any rate, standard Big Bang cosmology also does not suppose that there was ever a time when there was nothing. Time and space themselves came into existence at the Big Bang, thus the statement "everything in the universe has existed only for a finite time" is entirely compatible with the statement "there was never a time when there was nothing."

[donh]

Seems then we should call it, "not really a vacuum". This is where ID parts with CS, CS needs an origin where there is nothing. ID is perfectly content to conclude there has never been a time when there was nothing. An absolute vacuum has never existed.

I don't recall any prominent ID author holding this conviction. Please explain. & I don't see how failure to obtain "absolute vacuum" counteracts his argument. Were it not for matter spontaneously being presently created, as Physicist explained to you, transistors wouldn't work, and you wouldn't have this forum.