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MAN OF THE SHROUD
Various ^ | August 2002

Posted on 08/03/2002 6:33:43 AM PDT by NYer

The Shroud of Turin is a centuries old linen cloth that bears the image of a crucified man. A man that millions believe to be Jesus of Nazareth. Is it really the cloth that wrapped his crucified body, or is it simply a medieval forgery, a hoax perpetrated by some clever artist? Modern, twentieth century science has completed hundreds of thousands of hours of detailed study and intense research on the Shroud. It is, in fact, the single most studied artifact in human history, and we know more about it today than we ever have before. And yet, the controversy still rages.

Arguments against the Shroud's authenticity are prima facia, supported by carbon 14 dating and a prevailing view of the way things are in the world. On the other hand, the case for authenticity is a compelling preponderance of scientific and historic evidence. So daunting is the evidence that we can only wonder if, as  postmodernists suggest, "no such thing as objective truth exists, that historic reality is an inherently enigmatic and endlessly negotiable bundle of free-floating perceptions."1 The alternative is to consider, as C. S. Lewis contends: rare exceptions to nature are possible. 

On this hot and sultry day in August, I decided to post this thread for those who enjoy mystery, adventure and the thrill of discovery. There are many web sites devoted to this topic. I suggest you begin here:

SHROUD OF TURIN



TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: medievalhoax; shroudofturin; sudariumofoviedo; veronicaveil
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To: RnMomof7
Oppps

It is the nature of man to seek signs and to worship relics and objects..

81 posted on 08/25/2002 2:10:16 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
The shroud is just a piece of cloth..what is precious is the fact that the one that some believe wore it is risen! The tomb is empty!

Amem!

82 posted on 08/25/2002 2:10:51 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: RnMomof7
It is the nature of man to seek signs and to worship relics and objects..

It is the Nature of God to use Relics as a conduit of His Grace @ King, 8-14; The Mantle of Elijah

Exodus 7, 10 The Rod of Aaaron

Matt 9, 20-21 Matt 14-36 The hem of the Lord's garment

Acts 19,12

Acts 5, 15,16

I guess if God is ok with His Graces flowing through THOSE relics, we can conclude He is allright with the Shroud Of Turin despite your opposition

83 posted on 08/25/2002 2:31:59 PM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: fortheDeclaration
When I see you and RnMom show up to take shots at The Shroud of Turin, we see just how effective a relic it is - it tends to reveal the inner thoughts of those that come near it :)

Now, imagine you actually saw it in person? Would you start lecturing those around you, or would you stop to think about the physical evidence before you?

The Shroud truly does reveal the thoughts of many....

84 posted on 08/25/2002 2:36:42 PM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: Catholicguy
And its revealing you're relic happy.
85 posted on 08/25/2002 2:48:01 PM PDT by Wrigley
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To: Catholicguy
Were those thing put in glass cases and worshiped by anyone ? The issue is not does God use "things" to show His glory..It is that man seeking false gods and things to worship that he can touch worships the item.. (ye like "kissing" the relic and expecting some spiritual benefit)

Hezekiah would have tossed them out too..they are false gods..they have no power except those granted by God

The glory is Gods not the relic.

86 posted on 08/25/2002 2:57:32 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Catholicguy
The Shroud truly does reveal the thoughts of many....

It reveals when a man that cannot worship the God of creation with out having some intermediator to talk to God for him. Or one that thinks God can not act unless some man intervenes. . pathetic

87 posted on 08/25/2002 3:03:33 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Wrigley
And its revealing you're relic happy.

Worshipping the creature more than the creator

Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

88 posted on 08/25/2002 3:05:51 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
Too bad they need help understanding what Paul is saying.
89 posted on 08/25/2002 3:08:28 PM PDT by Wrigley
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To: RnMomof7
I can understand the interest in this area. But what happens is the relic is elvated to such a position of worship. Thou shall have no other gods before me means something.
90 posted on 08/25/2002 3:11:08 PM PDT by Wrigley
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To: RnMomof7
The glory is Gods not the relic.

Very true!!

The point being made here is that others have been brought to God through this "piece of cloth", as you call it. This is not an item to worship, but rather a burial cloth that brings one into a closer relationship with Christ. It is one thing to say that Jesus suffered, died and is now risen. It is quite different to understand the level of suffering He endured for you and me. It is most humbling and excrutiatingly painful to consider the Lamb being subjected to torment and ridicule so that we would be saved. In this "piece of cloth" is ALL the evidence of what He endured for ALL OF US.

The Shroud has no mystical properties. It stands as witness to the Truth - that Jesus Christ died so that we may live.

91 posted on 08/25/2002 3:14:12 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Catholicguy; RnMomof7
When I see you and RnMom show up to take shots at The Shroud of Turin, we see just how effective a relic it is - it tends to reveal the inner thoughts of those that come near it :) Now, imagine you actually saw it in person? Would you start lecturing those around you, or would you stop to think about the physical evidence before you? The Shroud truly does reveal the thoughts of many....

It shows that you do not know that we walk by faith not by sight (2Cor.5). It was the Jews who were always looking for 'signs'(1Cor.1:22)

92 posted on 08/25/2002 3:20:36 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: NYer
I have no problem with investigations into the possibility that this is real..but I do have reservations on how it will be viewed by some people as a "kind of god" ( like the water from fatima is it??) like a magic token and not a wonderous proof of the truth of the bible

Now that may not be true of you or me..but trust me people will flock expecting to see IT preform a miracle . Just like Moses pole..it will happen NYer

93 posted on 08/25/2002 3:21:51 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: fortheDeclaration
It shows that you do not know that we walk by faith not by sight (2Cor.5). It was the Jews who were always looking for 'signs'(1Cor.1:22)

Amazing when I can say Amen to you huh??:>)

94 posted on 08/25/2002 3:23:10 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: xzins
Really, though, it isn't significant. The burial cloth of Jesus is not salvation and never has been. Christianity has advanced by God's power for centuries without any knowledge of where/when/how of the burial shroud. Finally, if someone wants to believe it is authentic, that's fine. We all get to choose. But, it won't make a difference in the faith or doctrine of anyone else.

Amen! (2Cor.5:7)!

95 posted on 08/25/2002 3:23:13 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: RnMomof7; Catholicguy
Amazing when I can say Amen to you huh??:>)

Yea, nothing unites Protestants more then Catholics! :>

96 posted on 08/25/2002 3:24:25 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: Wrigley
I can understand the interest in this area. But what happens is the relic is elvated to such a position of worship. Thou shall have no other gods before me means something.

That is my concern..Would satan use that to draw people away from God? You bettcha

97 posted on 08/25/2002 3:24:38 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Wrigley; RnMomof7
And its revealing you're relic happy.

This is just laughable. Here we have a death shroud with the image of a crucified man on it, resembling the Person of Jesus Christ. Could the Shroud have been preserved by the faithful or would it have been destroyed by the faithful? Read a couple of scientific books on it. It has absolutely nothing to do with being "relic happy" - and your saying that is speaking from knee-jerk, anti-Catholic bias. Thank God the books of the Bible were preserved by the faithful or you guys would be lost.

Where in this thread is anyone "worshipping" the Shroud? You people set up a straw man and then triumphantly knock your straw man down.

For pete's sake, at least read an unbiased account of the Shroud and go from there.

98 posted on 08/25/2002 3:56:14 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: american colleen
What is laughable is what that the Roman church puts such a high level of interest in these relics. These are interesting pieces, nothing more.
99 posted on 08/25/2002 4:03:58 PM PDT by Wrigley
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To: Wrigley
It's laughable to want to find out what is possible to know about a Shroud, purported to be Jesus' death Shroud, which has been around for centuries? Why?

Have you read any of the books about it?

I guess it would be impossible for God to allow that His Son's death Shroud be preserved... and alarming for you that the Catholic Church has had possesion of the Shroud for centuries. Now I understand why you dismiss relics...

100 posted on 08/25/2002 4:20:00 PM PDT by american colleen
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