Did Communists Infiltrate the Catholic Church?

http://www.chuckmorse.com/communism_catholic_church.html ^ | Chuck Morse

[redhead]

I had a friend in Alaska who was taken with him. I read his "Seven-Storey Mountain" when I was in High School. It was a good read, but I was never very impressed with his later work, especially all his New Agey mumbo-jumbo and the free verse he was so fond of penning. I always felt a little "check" in my spirit when I heard someone cheering for him.

[redhead]

"I can't find statistics, but most of the sex abuser priests were ~probably~ not converts. Most communists would have been raised outside the catholic faith."

I don't think the priests involved in these scandals would have been the sleepers. But their superiors almost certainly would have been. The sleepers would be circumspect in every way in order to avoid suspicion. But when they were consecrated and given their dioceses, they would have used what they knew to manipulate and mold as many clones as possible.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Can there be much doubt about this now? And it's more than just your usual clove-cigarette-smoking, Lenin-bearded, suburban Communists with black turtlenecks, berets, and dark designer sunglasses.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

it's hard to write off Sr. Lucy as a conspiracy theorist. 43 posted on 7/26/02 7:31 PM Pacific by Polycarp

Or the Blessed Virgin Mary.

[Polycarp]

Very good point!

[redhead]

"If I've met any communists in the church, they sure have fooled me."

Wouldn't that be the whole idea?

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Yep.

There are a couple of key goals involved with infiltration. One is to corrupt within, sowing confusion, creating social and moral chaos to cause Western civilization to implode, leaving a power vacuum and moral void to be filled by Communism (or whatever other ideology is intended). Another is to use the institutions and power of the Church to advance direct Communist goals. And, of course, it's just a very large labyrinthine bureaucracy for people who are up to no good to hide. Prior to, say, the 1960s, the hierarchical structure of the Church could be used in an authoritarian or dictatorial sort of way. A Communist infiltrator who attained a certain level of authority good give orders to people without question. Money could be hidden, stolen, and manipulated. Religious houses could be used to hide agents and so forth. It's a logical strategy. In fact, American and British intelligence agencies have not overlooked religious institutions as covers for various covert operations. One could certainly suspect that some aspects of the leftward turn in Church affairs was not just because intellectual clergymen had been convinced by the "brilliant" ideological arguments of socialism and liberalism. [irony alert]

[Polycarp]

I don't know anything about him either. However on the web site hosting his sub page it appears he and the site are associated with Medjugorje. This "apparition" is a hot potatoe issue with which I don't like to engage. Without judging the relative merits of the claim for supernatural phenomena, suffice it to say that not all peripheral ministries that have spun off from this "apparition" site are credible or orthodox.

The priest may be rock solid and thoroughly trustworthy, but I have no way to know for sure either way.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Good answer.

It's up to bishops to police apparition groups claiming to have special messages or prophecies. Legitimate supernatural events are sometimes obscured by other kooky or demonic distractions which surround authentic spiritual phenomena. No way to tell for sure just based on accounts in newspapers and magazines. It's unfortunate, of course, if anyone gets lured into something false. Just bashing the victims, as some religious vigilantes do, usually only spreads more discord and confusion.

[Aliska]

Wouldn't that be the whole idea?

I usually can spot 'em from a mile away. Don't they all carry hammers and sickles and that bulge in their jacket pocket would be the "Communist Manifesto" they are required to carry close to their hearts. And they always wear red no matter what liturgical season we're in. That's how you spot 'em.

[Theresa]

"All these years later, though, I would wonder how centrally organized it would be."

Well that's just it. Communism is dying out. The replacement is Modernism. And there is a similarity of course between the two. However the Modernists are not as monolithic as the Communists. I mean where is the Modernists headquarters? Who is the president and leader of the Modernists? It's just sort of vague as to how they are organised, if they are. The Communists had a goal of a worker's state and no private property. But what are the Modernists really trying to do? What ultimately is their vision for the world?

[BlackVeil]

About Merton, "I think Weakland found his body..." That is a funny detail. Merton died in an accident, was electroucuted by an appliance, while on a trip to a conference in Asia.

Like livius, I am suspicious of conspiracy theories especially about "infiltrators", because it is all so paranoid. However, some rather serious allegatations about the Catholic church, which I initially dismissed (indeed, laughed at) have been shown to be not wholly baseless.

I know this sounds nutty, but I have heard rumours of satanic practices in the clergy, and also masonic rings. The name of Antonio Bugnini has been mentioned in regard to this - whether fairly or not, I don't know. But in my own research into an article on police corruption in Australia, I was astonished to find that a homosexual ring in NSW, which included several highly-placed Catholic clergy, had apparently also been involved in satanic practices. Moreover, these men all died in violent deaths (suicides and murders) before the matter could fully be investigated.

On the topic of infiltrators, would not the Communists have infiltrated other religions as well? They would have found it more easy to get into the Orthodox Church, surely. But they were quite untouched by all this liturical "reform". Just try not kneeling and tossing Holy Communion around in an Orthodox Church ...

Finally, there are other religions. In Islam the Shia clergy always maintained that attempts were made to infiltrate their seminaries, by both Communists and the CIA, during the post-war era. They had various means of restricting this, including a strong insistence upon the cultural basis of their religion - clerical dress etc.

[thedilg]

"If I met communists in the church,you could fool me."

They wouldn't have been much as far as communists are concerned if they didn't fool you and me. However, whenever I run across "liberation theology" communism jumps right to the fore. It certainly was and is, in the church. Do you agree?

Godspeed, The Dilg

[maryz]

would not the Communists have infiltrated other religions as well?

Not nearly so effective: the Catholic Church is worldwide and hierarchical, so any negative influence could be spread further. There is not one Orthodox church -- the Orthodox churches are national and no one is authorized to speak "with one voice" for all of them.

[thedilg]

Amen, You said it so much better than my post,75.

Godspeed, Amen

[Domestic Church]

"Once I found a rather detailed story about Bella Dodd..."

If you still have the link please post it...just tell folks it's for discussion but they'll need their salt shakers,lol. We should be able to pick through it. Isn't Pope John XXIII Blessed now? (So hard to keep up.)

About Merton, I always liked what I read but I read him simultaneously with St.John of the Cross, St.Therese, and the CCC when it came out...maybe his writings need to be couched in Carmelite tradition? Or maybe I just liked the sprinkling of Carmelite thought. I never thought of him as a blatant socialist but you are right about the leaning leftwards in his thought. Do you think Weakland might have liked the cachet of Merton or found it politically correct and useful? Do you think he actually knew him to any degree? This is the first link I've heard between these two.

[Domestic Church]

"I think Weakland found his body..." Now that is creepy!

[Domestic Church]

Maybe we should blame it on the Democrats ;-).

Well we know they are socialists.