To: patent
Father McBrien isn't a reliable source.
Father McBrien isn't a reliable source.
Father McBrien isn't a reliable source.
Father McBrien isn't a reliable source.
Father McBrien isn't a reliable source.
Father McBrien isn't a reliable source.
(Well worht repeating.)
To: Notwithstanding; narses; patent
LOL! Yes, Richard McBrien is anything but reliable.
Unfortunately, in this case, he's right, although he is clearly trying to use this fact (the acceptance of the Chaldean rite) for his own purposes.
In the Orthodox Church and among Eastern rite Catholics, the words of institution are actually not considered, in themselves, to be what one might describe as the "sacramental moment." Below is a quote from a book on the Orthodox liturgy:
"In the Divine Liturgy, the words of the Epiclesis are crystal clear on what is happening:
Priest: Send down Your Holy Spirit upon us and upon these gifts here set before You and make this bread the precious Body of Your Christ.
People: Amen.
Priest: And what is in this cup the precious Blood of Your Christ.
People: Amen.
Priest: Changing them by Your Holy Spirit.
People: Amen, Amen, Amen.
As is plain, these are not symbols:
"...the Orthodox Church believes that after consecration the bread and wine become in very truth the Body and Blood of Christ: they are not mere symbols, but the reality. But while Orthodoxy has always insisted on the reality of the change, it has never attempted to explain the manner of the change: the Eucharistic Prayer in the Liturgy simply uses the neutral term metaballo, to 'turn about', 'change', or 'alter'."
(The Orthodox Church, p. 283, by Timothy Ware)
As you can see, this does use the words of institution, but not quite the way they are used in the Roman rite. Clearly, the intention is the same, in any case.
However, I don't know what is actually in the Chaldean rite, whether the words are in there somehow but buried in other text, or whether they're not there at all. From Richard McBrien's exulting, it sounds as if they're not there at all, which is curious. Like all dissenters, he wants to get away from the reality of the Eucharist, and I think he's trying to use this as yet another line in his attack.
We've been discussing the Pope on this thread, which I just joined, and I don't mean to drift away from that. But this is an interesting sidelight, and of course, the Eucharist is certainly as fundamental to the Church as the Pope!
179 posted on
07/26/2002 4:15:52 AM PDT by
livius
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