The [Catholic Church] Coming-Out Party -- Unpacking the Mystery

DioceseReport.com ^ | July 19, 2002 | Joseph F. Wilson

[redhead]

"These past four decades have been quite a ride. We went through a liturgical reform which was to have renewed the Church; a sixty percent decline in Mass attendance over thirty years resulted. There was a catechetical revolution, myriad new textbooks, methods, programs and approaches replacing the tried and true Catechism: forty years later religious ignorance abounds to such an extent that two-thirds of Mass-going Catholics cannot identify the Catholic doctrine on the Eucharist when it is presented to them."

Ignorance on the part of the laity is an absolute requirement for these evil biships to do their dirty work. They know it would do no good to attempt to maul the Church and what she teaches if all the Faithful are knowledgable and informed.

[Unam Sanctam]

That logo looks like a pterodactyl! I've never seen the Holy Spirit given that form before.

[Gophack]

Maybe. But, I say that the Church has simply not come up with a convincing argument against contraception.

I'm completely with the Church on the issue of contraception. There are many studies done that show that the contraception mentality leads to liberal views on abortion, increases the divorce rate, and STD's.

NFP -- when practiced properly -- is the best form of birth control. My husband and I have practiced NFP since we were married nine years ago, and have never had an "unplanned" pregnancy. NFP is more effective than any artificial birth control.

I suggest you go to the following website One More Soul which offers both moral and scientific evidence against contraception and for NFP.

God bless.

[narses]

Please tell me you made this up:

The Eucharist was a nice piece of raisin bread or pita (I'm not kidding) and the priest was just an amiable old fellow who showed up to "talk" to us. We even had a clown mass...

I'm not doubting your credibility rather straining at my hopes that the stories I've heard like this are the urban legends of Catholicism.

[Gophack]

My parish priest gives two homilies a year on confession, and particularly stresses during Advent the need to go to confession and that the Church REQUIRES confession at least once a year.

We have bible studies with the associate priest. It's really up to the laity to attend, to promote them, and to have subjects that we're interested in.

We have monthly adoration and our church is packed at every mass. I wouldn't say that our parish is ultra-conservative or orthodox, but I think that it is standard and definitely not liberal. Since reading articles here with the Catholic Caucus, I realize that we don't have the same abuses some other parishes have. I consider myself blessed. If I want to attend a Tridentine Mass, I only have to drive 10 minutes to another parish, where the Latin Mass is celebrated once on Saturday and twice on Sunday, plus during the week.

Anyway, I wish you all luck and will pray for an end to abuses in the Church. God bless.

[american colleen]

Ignorance on the part of the laity is an absolute requirement for these evil biships to do their dirty work. They know it would do no good to attempt to maul the Church and what she teaches if all the Faithful are knowledgable and informed.

Thank you, I had always wondered why we have had such poor catechesis from the Church over the past 30 or so years. I know we have the responsibility to teach ourselves, but if no teaching is coming from the Church (Church=individual parishes and priests in this case) then one would assume what you hear/don't hear in the Church is what you need to know.

One of the big things that irks me is the Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers. My parish always has two for each mass (except the daily 9:00) and it doesn't matter if the Mass is half full (which it usually is). We have two priests in residence and one visiting (retired) for the 11:00 Sunday mass, so it is not an instance of not having the priests on hand to distribute Communion. The Eucharistic Ministers are very nice and kind and religiously attentive people and I always wonder what they would do and how they would react if they knew exactly what the Vatican teaches about the use of "extraordinary" Eucharistic Ministers. When I've tiptoed around the subject with a couple of them, they look at me like I am crazy and they seem to have the attitude that they were spiritually called for this contribution to God's work, no matter what the magisterium teaches.

[redhead]

"The happiest catholics I have met are liberals. Some of the others seem bogged down."

I don't agree. Those Catholics who are profoundly in love with Christ in the Eucharist are joyful. The liberal catholics I know are sourpusses, with not a shred of a sense of humor. They take themselves so seriously that it is hard not to laugh at them. Give me a faithful, obedient Catholic any day. Believe me, I know the difference. I used to be one of the liberal, ordain-women, dance-at-mass, Jungian "Catholics." No THANKS.

[narses]

Is there any documentation anywhere regards that story? I've heard it before and I'd love to learn more about it.

[Gophack]

Good information in your post. Thank you.

[redhead]

"The vast majority of older nuns were indeed light-hearted and kind."

Yep. I was a teenaged convert. The nuns of my experience during that time were kind, compassionate, simple, and faithful to their vows. In junior high and highschool, we had other orders of nuns. These women were HEROIC. My seventh-grade teacher had been interned in a Japanese concentration camp when she was arrested as a missionary in China. In high school, still another order, women who were strict but loving. I have not one single complaint, nor do I know of a single incidence of what might even by today's standards be considered "abuse." I hope every one of those kind, faithful women is in Heaven.

[narses]

My own opinion, fwiw, is that it isn't the Rite that is at issue, it is the Modernism that has crept into so much of our Church that is at fault. Can you "blame" a Council or a liturgical change? No, clearly not. Can those things be used by Modernists to wreak havock? Ask the people who suffered under Abp. Weakland. The answer is a resounding YES.

[redhead]

"If you stop for a few moments and quietly ponder the fact that the percentage of bishops whose names have been linked with sexual incidents is appreciably larger than the percentage of priests, it begins to seem less mysterious that so many sexual offenders in the priesthood were tolerated by their bishops."

Thanks for putting this into words for me, Polycarp. I have often suspected, no, been CONVINCED that nearly every bishops was corrupted in some way. It is a relief to know that I am not the only one with suspicions in this direction.

[narses]

Sterilization is wrong, certainly. But, many Catholic couples have decided, on their own, that non-abortafacient contraception is not sinful, occasionally.

American adult Catholics are big boys and girls, Polycarp. They will be responsible for their own decisions.

Forgive me Sinkspur, but neither of those statements appear to be defensible from a truly Catholic perspective. I am missing something?

[narses]

But, I say that the Church has simply not come up with a convincing argument against contraception.

Controlling conception is not the issue; the method is the issue, and there's work to do on a persuasive argument on the method.

Again Sinkspur, how can you reconcile saying those things with the Dogmas of the Church?

[Gophack]

I'm not exactly sure where I stand on the EEMs. Our Masses are so packed that if we didn't have them, we would be waiting for communion for an hour, especially since more than half the people in our church receive both the body and blood of our Savior Jesus Christ. We have six EEMs at the three most crowded masses (8, 9:30 and 11). We have two parish priests, but because we have five masses on Sunday they don't celebrate mass together -- and we have a sister church that they are responsible for as well (one mass on Saturday and one on Sunday). Anyway, I don't know how we would receive communion in a timely manner without them. The church, the chapel and the crying room are always full.

[Evangelium Vitae]

Regardless of the preaching 50+ years ago, the problem is that today priests hardly ever preach anything of substance.

I have never heard a homily about contraception. Never heard preaching on Confession. Rarely on abortion. In my experience, 95% of the time the priest will talk platitudes for 7-10 minutes and when he is done, will have ended up saying nothing of import.

How many priests will preach a homily series on the Eucharistic encyclical that is said to be in the works? How many explicitly reference Papal teaching at all?

Can all this be done without being "confrontational"? Yes. Is it being done at all? Hardly.

The Truth must be proclaimed in season and out of season. Alot of what the Church proclaims is out of season and is not being taught, to the detriment of souls.

[katnip]

One of the big things that irks me is the Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers.

At our parish, the female EEM's do the homily at the childrens masses (no kidding).

They have the children come up to the front and do skits or talk.

I can't figure out why they are doing this at the Holy Mass since the children have religious instruction during the week.

[Aliska]

Jungian "Catholics."

That sounds worse than "cafeteria" catholic. :-).

I'm trying to sort out why I see some things the way I do. I used to attend churches all over town. In the one in the west end, people didn't seem very happy, nor did they in the ones downtown. Maybe I should say happily energetic. They turn out for all the activities, etc.

In the two more wealthy parishes I'm more familiar with, all the masses are packed and the people just exude energy and seem happier, more vibrant.

Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with liberal or conservative. It's probably just people. Our whole diocese is pretty liberal.

The last time I attended the church in the west end, it was St. (the throat guy) day. There was a woman standing with her candles crossed in front of the church blessing everyone.

What difference does that make?

When you have a woman standing in front of the church with crossed candles, you know you have got a problem :-).

[Aliska]

Once upon a time, a priest could give confrontational homilies week after week, and folks would come back week after week for more. Because they lived in communities where leaving the Church wasn't a realistic option.

And you used to have to attend mass in the parish where you lived. Now you can choose.

[narses]

It's abuses like that (and that horrid story about raisen and pita bread being used as a "host") that show the true impact of Modernism on our Holy Mother. How horrible that most don't even recognize the abuses. Theological dissidence leads to abberent behavior. See the posts above regards the many deviations from the Rubrics practiced regularly at Masses.