Was Anyone Saved at the Cross? (Limited Atonement)

Alpha and Omega Ministries ^ | James White

[drstevej]

Xzins, I think many Calvinists argue that in the 2 Peter 3:9 passage the "usward" is a reference to believers (the elect) and the "any" likewise is a reference to the elect.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

His will is accomplished. All [of the elect] do come to repentance.

[drstevej]

***That is wrong sometimes *grin* ***

True, or should I say T-ROO??

[xzins]

Steve, the anxiety-ridden God INHERENT if one accepts that calvinist rendering probably means it was intended for a general audience rather than a limited audience. (Not willing that any of the impossible to perish should actually perish?)

[RnMomof7]

True, or should I say T-ROO??

God Bless you....

[RnMomof7]

Steve, the anxiety-ridden God INHERENT if one accepts that calvinist rendering probably means it was intended for a general audience rather than a limited audience

So did everyone get pizza that night?

[drstevej]

No anxiety. He's not biting His nails, nor is He wrapping up things untill the final elect person is regenerated. This is a statement of plan not frenzy. We get impatient, we think He is slow on His promise. He is neith impatient or slow.

Your concept of God hoping we will vote yes having been given us a neutral zone better fits the expression "anxiety ridden God."

[editor-surveyor]

" My response would be that the blood must not only be shed, but also applied. Christ died (shed His blood) as a substitute for all, but the elect alone have it applied by the Holy Spirit."

You've blown it this time Drsteve:

The blood was applied... On the mercy seat before the Father in Heaven.

[xzins]

1 Timothy 4:10: "We have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe."

Again, we see no anxiety here with an unlimited atonement.

"Especially of those who believe" differentiates that class from the class of those who do not believe. Yet, Jesus is the only possible Savior of that class, as well.

It's ok to push an illustration such as "neutral zone" to a ridiculous point if one wishes, but it's better to take it in the manner intended. It signifies the enlightening, convicting moments in life when the offer is extended.

Did you ever hear an invitation to accept Christ and turn it down? I did many times. I nonetheless FELT the conviction; I felt the emptiness of my negative decision; I felt the grace present that held all in abeyance and made it possible for me to have said "yes."

I remember these things.

[xzins]

pizza

Rn, you have no idea how POWERFUL was the grace of God at that moment in my life. You have no idea how great a sinner I was at that time....and yes, far greater than any sinning I do now. You have no idea how fast I was running from God and how far I had run. I WAS RESISTING. I am certain of it.

[RnMomof7]

Rn, you have no idea how POWERFUL was the grace of God at that moment in my life. You have no idea how great a sinner I was at that time....and yes, far greater than any sinning I do now. You have no idea how fast I was running from God and how far I had run. I WAS RESISTING. I am certain of it.

Steve at that moment you were under the grace of God..the running stopped and you did not choose to say no.

What was different that day Steve?

That was THE moment God had predestined to be..that time was no accident ..it was Gods perfect timing. All the nos were not Gods time..they were mans offer. That night it was God that offered.....and like Isaiah you fell on your knees before the God that sought you!

That was the night that God chose let you hear and see anew so you would desire Him

THEN with open eyes you chose..

[RnMomof7]

BTW I DO know how powerful the Grace of God was at that moment...It knocked this pregnant lady to her knees in repentance..

I know what it is to be enveloped in the grace of God so that all you want and need and desire is HIM .....

Could I say no...sure...but why would I ? The bush was burning...the water was coming out of the rock...the manna was falling .....Ohh My God your presence is all I seek.......yes Steve I do know ...and it was no calculated altar call

[xzins]

It WAS the night I chose. That is correct and that is free choice. And all the times when I said "no" was also free choice.

But it is not fair to either of us to use my experience to formulate theology. The Bible explains my experience. My experience should not be used to explain the Bible.

Although I bash you calvinists a bit, and that because I do see things differently, by and large I try to be fair with you. (With YOU, though, RN, I sometimes have great, great fun bear-baiting! LOL!)

[drstevej]

Irresistible grace is often preceeded by His Spirit convicting us of sin, righteousness and judgement.

What were the circumstances surrounding your conversion? That is if you desire to share them (freep mail is fine if you'd prefer).

I became a Christian as a senior in high school (a while back) at a evangelistic meeting hosted by my Methodist Church (an astounding occurance in itself!) I do not remember much of what was said except I knew I needed a savior. None of my friends were believers, nor were my church going parents so I had no follow up to explain the ABC's of the faith until I went off to Ga Tech and was followed up by a Campus Crusade staff person.

Since then I was privledged to see my father, mother andd brother come to faith. In each of them there was an extended period od rejection of my witnessing to them and then one by one each changed from resistance to embracing the Savior.

[RnMomof7]

Steve God wants all of us to freely choose Him..but a man that is bound can not "freely " choose. God has to give you the new heart so that you have a really free will ...THEN you make a choice you could not have made before..

What was different on the day you chose. Think back what happened to make you change your mind (will)?

[jude24]

Wish I could remember my conversion that clearly. I was a young 'un at the time -- perhaps 4?? . I only vaguely remember the circumstances surrounding it. Sometimes I think that would be more helpful if I could recall them.

[drstevej]

Perhaps in eternity the Lord will give you His description of that great event in your life!

[xzins]

Rn, if you have copies, can you send DrSteve a copy of each of the email/freepmails I sent you regarding "knock on door" that you call "pizza delivery?" I can't find my copy, so I must have deleted it already. The "knock on door" email and others related. Thanks.

[RnMomof7]

I was thinking about that today. It is a real blessing to be raised a Christian and to be converted as a child..to grow in grace and stature at the same time.....but then you do miss the memory of the adult conversion

God has His time and HIS purpose ......

Sometime ask God to help you to remember it ....who know maybe he will:>)

I am going to talk to my granddaughters .. I believe that one of them was saved last year..but we have never had a good conversation on it. I want her to tell the story so it stays fresh..I did not do that with my son and I feel bad about that

[RnMomof7]

Ohhhhhhh I cleaned my mail box today ..let me go check

[jude24]

Sometimes I feel like my testimony is kinda boring, and I'm generally embarassed to present it. First time I had to with Crusade in an evangelistic setting, I was scared silly.

I've always wondered how I should approach that -- most of the people I know through Crusade, and a good number thru church were all saved as adults.