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This fella, believe it or not, is a professor at Northwestern.
1 posted on 07/14/2002 7:40:50 AM PDT by heyheyhey
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To: heyheyhey
Wills dissembles and lies with the skill of a clumsy Lucifer. Good enought to fool the ignorant I suppose, and American Catholics are woefully ignorant about their Church.

I'll leave the sloppy reasoning to others (poll taking as a vehicle for knowing God's will?). But I'd at least like to point out the lies:

1. "Under Pope Paul VI, the Vatican released a document saying women could not be priests because they do not look like Jesus."
This is a lie. That was not Paul VI's argument, nor was it the Church's. See ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS for more background, including Paul VI's statements on the matter.

2. On a slightly more serious level, we are told that Christ did not ordain any women. True. Neither did he ordain any men.
This is certainly a lie if you call yourself a Catholic. Contending as Wills does denies apostolic succession, which defies the earliest creeds of the Church. If Wills believes this, he is no longer a Catholic.

3. The male priesthood developed at a time when women were held to be inferior to men and unclean for purposes of sacred ritual.
Either a lie, or ignorance. Priestesses were common in Jesus' day. Some temples were served exclusively by priestesses and men were disallowed from serving.

4.Canon law prescribed keeping the altar pure from female pollution.
There is no such thing as "female pollution" in Canon Law.

5. It is a sign of Vatican expertise in "natural law" that it held, in the past, that it would be unnatural for a woman to be in the church sanctuary or choir, but that a "natural" way to provide treble voices for the Sistine chapel's music, in the absence of women, would be castrate boys before their voices changed.
The practice of castrating male singers was always condemned by the Church, even if ignored by some sinful clerics.

The fundamental fallacy of this argument is the assumption that one's sex is of no more ontological importance than the color of one's hair. I would like to hear Professor Wills explain why he thinks sex is a unimportant aspect of ontological identity, rather than merrily brushing the issue aside.

The Church's position is that sex is an important part of ontological identity, and as such sees equality as a matter of value and dignity without needing to see this expressed identically between men and women. Mr. Wills rejects this notion, and therefore for him equality of value and dignity can only come when there is an accompanying sameness in the way they live.

Compare this statement by professor Wills:

The Catholic Church, that claims to learn from the ages through which it has perdured, will learn in time that policies formed when women were considered inferior cannot survive in our day.

With this one from John Paul II:

Furthermore, the fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God and Mother of the Church, received neither the mission proper to the Apostles nor the ministerial priesthood clearly shows that the non-admission of women to priestly ordination cannot mean that women are of lesser dignity, nor can it be construed as discrimination against them. Rather, it is to be seen as the faithful observance of a plan to be ascribed to the wisdom of the Lord of the universe.

This fallacy feminism brought the secular world - that women and men are not only equal, but are so nearly identical as to be interchangable - is what Prof. Wills wants to see enacted in the Church.

Wills and his ilk would do better trying to understand true the idea that holiness, not hierarchical position is the proper goal of every Catholic. Where the doctrine of sexual sameness has spread throughout the modern world, holiness has plummeted.

2 posted on 07/14/2002 9:10:26 AM PDT by Snuffington
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To: *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; livius; goldenstategirl; ...
ping
3 posted on 07/14/2002 9:32:14 AM PDT by narses
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To: heyheyhey
Will he be declared a heretic? Will the Church exercise any discipline in this matter? Should She?
4 posted on 07/14/2002 9:32:58 AM PDT by narses
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To: heyheyhey
But a majority of Catholics agree that "priestly celibacy increases the chances of sexual abuse"--51 percent in a Dallas Morning News poll and 52 percent in a Canadian News poll. This is a matter of common sense. How can anyone doubt that the abuse of minors would not have spread so far in secret if priests' wives or women priests had been part of the church's structure? Recent articles have noted how many of the whistle-blowers in recent business scandals have been women. They were not bound by the boys' club rules of the past.

Wills is another CINO idiot and was recently handed his lunch by Father Fessio and Rod Dreher on Peter Robinson's show "Uncommon Knowledge" on PBS. How many of those "Catholics" polled voted for Clinton, twice? Not one word about perverted homosexuals violating their vows and criminal law. This clown offers no explanation for the sexual abuse that takes place in Protestant denominations which do not have a celibate clergy. He is ignorant of Scripture, history and his faith. Don't let the door hit you on the way out Gary.

5 posted on 07/14/2002 10:08:36 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: heyheyhey
I really dislike liberals.

13 posted on 07/14/2002 2:13:40 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper
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To: heyheyhey
this guy must be praying hard for the death of JPII.

He better have his fingers crossed about the successor, though, because JPII put in most of the cardinals. Odds are the next pope will be as opposed to changing to women priests as this one is.

14 posted on 07/14/2002 2:15:00 PM PDT by xzins
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To: heyheyhey
Some claim that the pedophile-priest scandal has nothing to do with the mandatory celibacy rule for Roman Catholic priests. But a majority of Catholics agree that "priestly celibacy increases the chances of sexual abuse"--51 percent in a Dallas Morning News poll and 52 percent in a Canadian News poll.

When an article starts with such an obvious, blatant fallacy like this, I say to myself, "why bother to continue reading?"
21 posted on 07/14/2002 7:54:47 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: heyheyhey
It's funny. I have no doubt that women will be priestesses ... just not in the Catholic Church...
22 posted on 07/14/2002 7:57:05 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: heyheyhey
Well, isn't that Garry Wills just touchy-feely. He was even once a Catholic and a conservative until he married his feminist wife. Now, he is just sooooo special that he can even tell when Pope Pius XI intended to issue an encyclical that the Wills of recent decades would have found just peachy-keen but was apparently suppressed (at least in Wills' vivid imagination) by Eugenio Cardinal Pacelli (later Pope Pius XII) who is not one of Wills' favorites.

Garry has come full circle from the 1960s when he defended National Review's and Bill Buckley's attack on the encyclical Mater et Magistra as a socialist document in Catholic garb (thereby rejecting Rerum Novarum and its progeny which are basic to Catholic social teaching) to now attacking the Vatican for not being foolishly liberal on Church matters as is Wills.

There is one consistency that must be noted. Garry Wills, in his long and sorry career of posing as a Catholic, has never been consistent with the teachings of the Church and has never been a practitioner of humble humility before legitimate Church authority. Humility would certainly be warranted on his part as his persistent rebellions are not.

24 posted on 07/14/2002 11:14:58 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: heyheyhey
I just noticed the "keywords" you used when you posted this topic --- LOL!
31 posted on 07/15/2002 9:19:14 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: heyheyhey
Catholics agree that "priestly celibacy increases the chances of sexual abuse"--51 percent in a Dallas Morning News poll and 52 percent in a Canadian News poll.

Thank God that He did not establish His church to be a democracy!

We'd have a church then that promotes and encourages contraception, abortion, divorce, yada.

"And the gates of Hell shall not prevail ..."

36 posted on 07/15/2002 1:31:23 PM PDT by Gophack
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To: heyheyhey; Snuffington
St. Thomas Aquinas agreed with his teacher, Albert the Great, that "woman is a misbegotten man and has a faulty and defective nature."

RE: The quotation marks. Bordering on an outright lie, but I'll give him old fashion sloppiness. This point concerning the scholastics, particularly the angelic Doctor, is more complicated than Mr. Wills suggests. See "What Aquinas Never Said About Women" and "What Aquinas Really Said About Women"

37 posted on 07/15/2002 1:45:33 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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To: heyheyhey
Why women will be priests

Women will ONLY be priests IF and ONLY IF, they are Haters of the 66 books of The Holy Bible.....THE ONLY WORD (message/Special Revelation) from the ONE and ONLY GOD!

Women will ONLY be priests IF and ONLY IF, as being therefore in "Rebellion" against the ONE and ONLY GOD, they therefore REJECT the Biblical SEVEN DAY account of CREATION by THE CREATOR/REEDEMER GOD,......and become Religious PHILOSOPHERS!
(Atheists, Pagans, Evolutionists, Heathen, Magicians, Witchgraft, etc!!!)

Women will ONLY be priests IF and ONLY IF, they HATE the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD, Moses, Jacob, and the PROMISES TO ISRAEL concerning INHERITANCE of the Nation of all ISRAEL as the PREMIERE REIGNING NATION (for 1,000 years) under Jesus Christ's Personal Messianic RULE/REIGN on "David's Throne" in Zion!!!

56 posted on 07/16/2002 9:30:52 AM PDT by maestro
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To: heyheyhey
Gary Wills is the quintenntial CINO: he is getting old and more bitter as he ages.
82 posted on 07/17/2002 7:35:58 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: heyheyhey
Women will be ordained because we need them.

Like a fish needs a bicycle!?!!

95 posted on 07/17/2002 8:32:58 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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To: heyheyhey
There are no priests in the gospels.

Does this mean Jesus was not a Priest?

Garry, you're an inspiration to Catholics everywhere!

100 posted on 07/17/2002 11:39:39 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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