Mark Twain on the Book of Mormon

Roughing It | 1872 | Mark Twain

[T. P. Pole]

Great resources

Thanks. That Infobase collection doesn't get much use at my house, but when I am looking into a tricky or obscure question, I can usually find something there. For LDS stuff, I find it more useful than Google (well, at least for the "official" position). In fact, my biggest challenge was finding the same quote on the web so I didn't have to cut and paste huge docs.

[T. P. Pole]

was my answer way off the mark? (regarding Heavenly Mother)

Well, the fact the Hinckley included it in a talk indicates that it was a topic in late 1991.

I've cut a few of the quotes from the talk, so you can see his response. The short answer, however, is "don't."

From Hinckley "Daughters of God" Nov, 1991

"I speak of those who advocate the offering of prayers to our Mother in Heaven.

"This [practice] began in private prayer and is beginning to spread to prayers offered in some of our meetings.

"Logic and reason would certainly suggest that if we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. That doctrine rests well with me.

"However, in light of the instruction we have received from the Lord Himself, I regard it as inappropriate for anyone in the Church to pray to our Mother in Heaven.

"The Lord Jesus Christ set the pattern for our prayers. In the Sermon on the Mount, He declared:

""After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name"

"Search as I have, I find nowhere in the standard works an account where Jesus prayed other than to His Father in Heaven or where He instructed the people to pray other than to His Father in Heaven.

"I have looked in vain for any instance where any President of the Church, from Joseph Smith to Ezra Taft Benson, has offered a prayer to ‘our Mother in Heaven.’

"I suppose those who use this expression and who try to further its use are well-meaning, but they are misguided. The fact that we do not pray to our Mother in Heaven in no way belittles or denigrates her."

[restornu]

Thank you for your response! I use to listen to Cleon's tapes all the time I think he has such gentle sweet way of tell these lovely things. When my husband and I were having health problems I lost track of those great taps. Now that my husband is gone, Cleon's talks will give me some comfort.

[T. P. Pole]

Re: Rom. 8:16

I just do not see how that can be used as a proof text for being born spirit children

To me the reading is clear.

The Holy Spirit witnesses to our spirits of our salvation........it is an assurence scripture

Would you explain how you get anything other than that out of it?

I certainly do not have time now to give my normal thorough answer to this. I just read the whole chapter, and Paul sure is all over the map with this metaphor.

He talks about receiving the Spirit of God into our lives, so we are not punished for our sinful bodies. He talks about resurrection. He talks about adoption into God's family. Hard to really follow all the he is saying here.

I certainly can see confusion over this verse, even in context. If I wasn't LDS, I might come up with an adoption theory, especially since he talks of heirs in the next verse.

Being LDS, however, I would say that he is telling us that the Spirit confirms to our spirits that we are literal spirit children of our Heavenly Father.

[T. P. Pole]

Is there any other software on these topics? The LDS infobase had a competitor (I think owned by Deseret Books), but a few years back they merged. I think they go under the infobase name. A quick search on the internet will find it for you. Runs about $70-100. Well worth it.

[restornu]

I have the 97 LDS Collectors Library version, but it is so hard to do a search, have they improved the search engine?

[Grig]

While talking software, is there a scriptures on CD that allows you to add tons of your own footnotes/comments? The one that just came out from the Church doesn't I've heard.

[restornu]

While talking software, is there a scriptures on CD that allows you to add tons of your own footnotes/comments? The one that just came out from the Church doesn't I've heard.

MSTAR.NET

DESERETONLINE,COM

I use have Deseret ISP they merged with mstar.net so Now I use Mstar at $20.

[RnMomof7]

Things are better when we stick to the Scriptures. You do not have a problem that we are created in the image of God, male and female, for the Bible says so, but you say it must not be taken literally.

And we do believe that we are made in the image of God WM. The spiritual image.

[RnMomof7]

8:16 Rom 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

I certainly can see confusion over this verse, even in context. If I wasn't LDS, I might come up with an adoption theory, especially since he talks of heirs in the next verse.

I think it is problematic as a proof text for progression especially when seen through other scripture

     Rom 8:23   And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.   

  2Cr 5:5   Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing [is] God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

     Eph 1:13   In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,     

     1Jo 4:13   Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. ( I really like this verse:>)   

     1Jo 3:19   And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

I think both Paul and John use the term in the saame way as a measure of eternal assurence..     

[RnMomof7]

God knows them, if it requires revelation to get the information, the revelation will come sometime in the millenium. God expects us to do what we can do ourselves first, and we are not close to being done that yet.

Historically at what point did the church move from the proxie baptism of family to a general application of the ordinances? Was that a special revelation or a natural change?

[Grig]

"Historically at what point did the church move from the proxie baptism of family to a general application of the ordinances?"

I don't know what moving you are talking about. It has always been something for all mankind, and the emphasis has always been on having it done for ancestors before spending time and effort doing it for others.

Church membership, the number of temples, technology etc. have effected how quickly they can be done, and how many are available to do in a given time. There are more nth generation members who don't have a list of ancestors still waiting to be done than in the past (so they do work for others), but the focus is still to put the priority on doing your ancestors. When I go I wind up doing the work for the ancestor of a newer member usually.

[restornu]

Have you tried the Blue Stuff yet?

[Wrigley]

I didn't know I needed to run out and get some. Next time I go to the store I'll look for it.

[restornu]

I let you know how it works 1st I got it off of TV a neighbor in where I live thinks it good I haven't tried it yet.I think I will do it tonight, I was going to wait until I was out for the day to see how it does. AS of now I use Joint Ritis from the drugstore which it is not bad.

Now on the radio they warn of this leg trouble.

Peripheral vascular disease

[Wrigley]

My issue has been knee/patella dislocations. Along with minor sprains. I used to play a lot of basketball and baseball, but I can't trust my knees anymore. I'll have them fixed someday.

[restornu]

My issue has been knee/patella dislocations. Along with minor sprains. I used to play a lot of basketball and baseball, but I can't trust my knees anymore. I'll have them fixed someday.

You might want to check this out!

I thougth you had arthrist, this stuff is good for old knee injuries. Andrew design this for him self personally due to sports injuries.

Andrew Lessman's Joint Effort Plus Chondroitin, Glucosamine and MSM

[RnMomof7]

. I'll have them fixed someday.

Go now! The latest federal study showed that" Total Knee Replacements "REDUCE mobility..seems they divided the people that needed knee replacments into two groups..both groups BELIEVED that they had the surgery but actuallu only 1/2 did

After one year the ones with the "fake " surgery were more mobile and more pain free and better able to climb stairs..

Go to an arthritis specialist ..they now have a procedure where they inject a fluid into the space in the knee it then cushion and preserves the bone and joint...the longer you let it go the worse it will get ......(ask me about it sometime:>)

[Wrigley]

Now that I am back working again, I have the insurance. I should kick in next month. I planned on getting to my doctor since I've noticed some instability in my left knee that I want to have checked out. Same knee I had an MRI on which supposedly showed nothing. I get swelling from time to time in both, it usually goes away overnight, but it does reduce mobility.

I'm a bit of a wreck.

[restornu]

I have had some help with this when I am able to take it, and does help to rebuild, support and maintain the healthy properties of cartilage and connective tissue.

Glucosamine and Chondroitin Sulfate are two primary ingredients required to rebuild, support and maintain the healthy properties of cartilage and connective tissue. Chondroitin Sulfate is also an essential component of healthy synovial fluid, which is the primary “shock absorbing” and lubricating system present in our joints. The benefits of Glucosamine and Chondroitin extend beyond joint tissue, as they are also essential for the unique structural properties of other “elastic” tissues in the body, such as arteries, veins and heart valves. In addition, the combined action of Glucosamine and Chondroitin together offers complementary benefits not available when taking either on its own. Moreover, if these two essential structural ingredients provide the building blocks for your joint tissues, then the sulfur from M.S.M. is the mortar that holds your joints together. In fact, it is sulfur’s unique ability to create disulfide linkages that allows tissues like our joints to retain their structural integrity and elasticity. You expect a great deal from your body during your lifetime, but a normal loss of elasticity with age should not be one of those things you have to accept, so it only makes sense that you provide the vital molecules your body requires to support the healthy flexibility and resiliency of your joints and other vital elastic tissues.

You can try that and they will give you a full refund it your not satified.

Things are so unsettled here for now and I am getting wall units to so my things more access to my things.