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To: Wrigley
Those traditions would include what exactly?

The Liturgy, for one. Fasts and feasts were a part of Judaism that the Apostles carried over.

Yes, there are some in the Roman Catholic Church that carry the veneration too far, but that isn't any worse than those who chose to ignore her completely.

The Eastern Church never sold indulgences so we are in agreement about that.

However, Stephen the first Martyr was remembered by the faithful from the time of his death. Veneration of the Saints is verification of our belief that those who follow Christ have eternal life. Protestants always tell us the Saints are just dead people, but we know them to be alive in Christ.

And, oh yes, infant baptism! Origen wrote of that being the practice in only the 2nd Century. There was never any Biblical or Traditional mention of withholding a child from the Body of Christ until some man-made determination about an "age of reason!" Jesus said to let the children come to Him and we obey!

296 posted on 06/24/2002 3:17:24 PM PDT by FormerLib
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To: FormerLib
The Liturgy, for one. Fasts and feasts were a part of Judaism that the Apostles carried over.

Not sure what you mean by Liturgy. Do you mean Mass? Which fasts and feasts, besides the Lord's Supper, do you mean. I don't recall any others.

Yes, there are some in the Roman Catholic Church that carry the veneration too far, but that isn't any worse than those who chose to ignore her completely.

In what way to others ignore her completely? What veneration does she need? Besides being the mother of Jesus, what is so special about her? Was she not a sinner like you and I?

The Eastern Church never sold indulgences so we are in agreement about that.

Excellent. However, Stephen the first Martyr was remembered by the faithful from the time of his death. Veneration of the Saints is verification of our belief that those who follow Christ have eternal life. Protestants always tell us the Saints are just dead people, but we know them to be alive in Christ.

All those who saved are alive in Christ. Stephan no more than you or I needed Jesus to save us. There have been many faithful men and women who have died proclaiming Jesus on their lips, are they any more special than Stephan or other martyrs? Should we not instead of praising those, praise God who gave them their strength. I see an opening to praise others instead of God when we venerate these saints.

And, oh yes, infant baptism! Origen wrote of that being the practice in only the 2nd Century. There was never any Biblical or Traditional mention of withholding a child from the Body of Christ until some man-made determination about an "age of reason!" Jesus said to let the children come to Him and we obey!

What does infant baptism do for the infant? The church that I attend practices infant baptism so I don't have a problem with it per se, but I would depending on what you think it does for the infant.

299 posted on 06/24/2002 4:21:23 PM PDT by Wrigley
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To: FormerLib
The Eastern Church never sold indulgences so we are in agreement about that.

Don't mention the holy icons: he is an Iconaclast and would have a fit if he knew about them.

300 posted on 06/24/2002 4:31:18 PM PDT by RobbyS
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