SOME THOUGHTS ON THE VARIOUS MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT THE DOCTRINES OF GRACE, COMMONLY CALLED CALVINISM

Cork Free Presbyterian Church ^ | 6/21/02 | Pastor Colin Maxwell

[DittoJed2]

Restornu, we don't belittle the burning in the heart. An encounter with God is emotional. What we are opposed to is making that the standard for saying what is true. Scripture should be the indicator of whether or not one's emotional experience is true. We aren't belittling an emotional experience you had. We are just questioning it's adherence to Scripture (which in our view does not include the Book of Mormon or the Pearl of Great Price).

[Wrigley]

For breakfast??

[RnMomof7]

The above statements contradict the parody of Calvinism too many mistake for the real thing. This could help correct people like you or myself, when we were Arminians, but mistakenly misunderstood Calvinism. What I opposed was not true Calvinism, but rather hyper-Calvinism I now know.

When I saw it I thought it addressed alot of the issues we discuss here. So I posted it as a means of clarification..let them that have ears hear..

[fortheDeclaration]

"For many are called, but few are chosen." -- Mat. 22:14 Don't let your quarrel with Calvin (one which I shared with you until about a year ago) obscure the truth from your eyes.

Hey, 'Jude' that cannot be a Calvinist passage, since according to Calvinism, everyone God calls is chosen

Are you telling me that God 'calls' some who do not respond? What happened to irresistable Grace?

Or, does God Call Corpses, but even that will not work for the dead do hear His voice (Jn.5:25)

Repent and reject the heresy known as Calvinism!

[xzins]

Bet these points in the article don't all align with the Westminster Confession.

[xzins]

According to the above article, calvinists DON'T believe in fatalism. I've included the dictionary definition from AUTHORITATIVE Merriam-Webster which says that "fatalism" means "events are fixed ahead of time and humans can't change them."

I've included the passage from one of the most authoritative documents of calvinism, The Westminster Confession. It says that some are preselected for heaven and some are preselected for hell and that nothing can change that....to the extent that even the number would NEVER vary.

The LIE is revealed. Calvinism DOES TEACH FATALISM.

1) CALVINISTS DO NOT BELIEVE IN FATALISM:

Merriam-Webster Dictionary - One entry found for fatalism. Main Entry: fa·tal·ism Pronunciation: -"i-z&m Function: noun Date: 1678 : a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them; also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine - fa·tal·ist /-ist/ noun - fa·tal·is·tic /"fA-t&l-'is-tik/ adjective - fa·tal·is·ti·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb

Westminster Confession:

Of God's Eternal Decree. West Conf, Click here

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.

IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed; and their number is so certain and definite that it can not be either increased or diminished.

[fortheDeclaration]

What the Calvinists do in order to show that they are not fatalists is spend a lot of time refuting the pagan notion of fatalism (i.e. 'luck', 'chance', 'fate')

The actual definition of Fatalism, stated in your post, as it relates to the Calvinistic notion of predestination never comes into play.

As John Calvin said Ignorance is wisdom... (Calvin, Institutes, 3:21.2, cited in Palmer, Five Points, p.111)

How is that for a motto! I told you these guys speak Orwellian

[fortheDeclaration]

Bet these points in the article don't all align with the Westminster Confession.

Calvinists are like Roman Catholics, they can shift to whatever authority they need at the time!

Rembember the Calvinists motto Ignorance is wisdom!

[Wrigley]

Right you are.

[rdb3]

They want to bind God to their own sense of fairness and justice - but He is not bound by any such rules.

Bingo! There it is! God is God all by Himself. He doesn't need us; we need Him.

It seems unfair to them, so, it must be unfair to God, right?

Well reasoned post, DJ2. I'm still saying that when it is tried in the fire, the only thing left with them is their personal vanity (which your statement, "They want to bind God to their own sense of fairness" points directly toward).

VANITY! That's one of the largest problems here. The others are myriad, of course.

[rdb3]

Thanks, Wrigley.

I have a question, though. Is it me, or, is it the perpetual statements of truth contained in the Word causing some here to go absolutely insane? As I'm reading some of these posts by those who refuse to allow God to be God wihtout question, I've noticed that they are becoming totally incoherent.

[Wrigley]

No, it's not just you, the comments are incoherent. But what is more surprising is that those who make those comments actually think the comments make sense.

[drstevej]

Let it, therefore, be our first principle that to desire any other knowledge of predestination than that which is expounded by the word of God, is no less infatuated than to walk where there is no path, or to seek light in darkness. Let us not be ashamed to be ignorant in a matter in which ignorance is learning. Rather let us willingly abstain from the search after knowledge, to which it is both foolish as well as perilous, and even fatal to aspire. If an unrestrained imagination urges us, our proper course is to oppose it with these words, "It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory," (Prov. 25: 27.) There is good reason to dread a presumption which can only plunge us headlong into ruin.

Calvin, Institutes, 3:21.2

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This is the full quote in context. An interesting quote and in my opinion advice that is well worth heeding!

[Wrigley]

Thanks Steve. Is it time to talk about what Wesley said?

[RnMomof7]

No, it's not just you, the comments are incoherent. But what is more surprising is that those who make those comments actually think the comments make sense.

Circular reasong EVERY THING come back to them

Their theme song.."It's all about me Jesus..its all about me!"

[Wrigley]

.."It's all about me Jesus..its all about me!"

I used to think that until my Father corrected me.

[RnMomof7]

Yes it could be time to do do some Wesley quotes..what was the one that we thought so outrageous??? UMMMMMMMMMMM

[drstevej]

***Is it time to talk about what Wesley said?***

===

What de he say worth discussing? I do like Chuck Wesleys' "And Can it Be?"

[drstevej]

Re: Your "Ignorance is wisdom" post.

Do you Arminian scholars (?) ever look up stuff in context? Your ignorance of the "ignorance is wisdom" citation is not wise.

[Wrigley]

Something about denying God if I remember correctly. If ftd insists on taking things out of context, it may be time.