Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: RnMomof7
The question was not how faith and repentance occurred, whether they were a gift or not, but if it were possible to be saved without them. I assume you believe you cannot be save without faith and repentance, which I agree are gifts from God, as are all things.

Is that correct? And very importantly, is faith a work? Is repentance a work? You did not answer those questions. On other threads, Calvinists have asserted that faith and repentance are works. Is that your position? Hank

100 posted on 06/18/2002 7:15:06 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies ]


To: Hank Kerchief
A "work" IMHO is a human effort..grace and repentance are works of God not man
102 posted on 06/18/2002 7:25:11 PM PDT by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 100 | View Replies ]

To: Hank Kerchief;Jerry_M;RnMomof7
"Calvinists have asserted that faith and repentance are works."

Prove it. Quote them. Name, date, reply # and thread reference.

Unless you can do it you need to retract that statement to avoid being charged with using the same sort of disengenuous tactics that are used by Clintoon to mislead his useful idiots.

106 posted on 06/18/2002 8:02:15 PM PDT by Matchett-PI
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 100 | View Replies ]

To: Hank Kerchief
The question was not how faith and repentance occurred, whether they were a gift or not, but if it were possible to be saved without them. I assume you believe you cannot be save without faith and repentance, which I agree are gifts from God, as are all things.

Is that correct? And very importantly, is faith a work? Is repentance a work? You did not answer those questions. On other threads, Calvinists have asserted that faith and repentance are works. Is that your position? Hank

There's a trap laid, whether intentionally or not, in the way you're asking. What you're trying to get us to say is that faith and repentance are works, agree that you cannot be saved without faith and repentance, then show that therefore we are saved by our works of faith and repentance. Faith and repentance ARE works. Repentance is a necessary byproduct of faith, for we cannot have faith in Christ and not realize the need to turn from our sins. So the issue really is faith and whether or not it's a saving work. Faith in and of itself does not save, just like election does not in and of itself save. What saves is God's grace...his imputation of the righteousness of Christ to the elect (however you define them). Faith is the vehicle. If you agree as you stated above that faith is a gift, then it is not a saving work in the sense you're trying to portray it.

This always ends up back at the James debate over faith and works. If one truly has faith, works are inevitable. They are the work of the Holy Spirit through that individual. Faith without works is a dead faith, not a living one.

I suppose this will lead us off on another tanget in this thread:)

113 posted on 06/19/2002 5:38:04 AM PDT by Frumanchu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 100 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson