Posted on 06/05/2002 11:51:09 AM PDT by sheltonmac
Any time there is a flurry of activity in the Middle East you can count on evangelical Christians to put on a good show. They run around proclaiming an "End of the World Is Near" gospel in hopes of scaring people into the Kingdom of God.
I refer to such Christians as "they" because I happen to be one of those evangelical Christians who believe that God is no longer dealing with national Israel and that His chosen people are those who comprise the church—essentially, all who believe in Christ. This may seem like a radical concept to those who look upon writers of doomsday fiction as prophetic geniuses, but that's what happens when people are drawn away from that boring, dust-covered, leaherbound Bible on the coffee table by novels with flashy covers and catchy titles.
When it comes to end times "prophecy," premillennialists seem to have a monopoly on the market. Hal Lindsey burst upon the scene in the 1970's with The Late Great Planet Earth. It became an international best-seller. In like fashion, the Left Behind series by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins has proven to be one of the most lucrative enterprises in the history of Christendom. Sure, these books are by no means examples of literary greatness, but the authors more than make up for that with pure, unadulterated prophetic sensationalism.
The success of apocalyptic authors like Lindsey, LaHaye and Jenkins stems from their ability to exploit the prevailing eschatological school of thought among evangelical Christians, that being dispensational premillennialism. (Thank you, John Nelson Darby!) When it comes to the end times, most premillennialists believe that all Christians will be "raptured," that is, taken up out of the world by Jesus Christ at his almost second coming. Those left behind will have to face the Great Tribulation, a seven-year period of unparalleled chaos which will also herald the rule of the Anti-Christ. At the end of the Tribulation, Christ will return—his actual second coming—to set up his earthly kingdom and reign on the throne of David for a thousand years. After that millennial time of peace, God will do away with evil once and for all at the Great White Throne Judgment. (How there can be a thousand years of peace with evil present I cannot say. I suppose it's one of those things that just works it self out in the premillennialist model.)
With all the hype surrounding the end times, it is certainly understandable that theological misconceptions will filter down into our political ideology. This is not a new phenomenon. In fact, ever since the arrival of dispensational premillennialism on this continent in the 19th century our national political position has shifted to accomodate this line of thinking, thanks to the efforts of evangelical Christians.
Evangelical Christian influence has been around since the founding of this nation, and the beliefs of evangelicals have spilled over into politics. Ordinarily there would be nothing wrong with this, but flawed theology has since given way to a flawed foreign policy, and U.S. interests have become inextricably tied to the interests of modern Israel.
Strong political support for a Jewish nation began in the early 1900s. During World War I, Arthur James Balfour penned the Balfour Declaration which set the stage for British support of a Jewish homeland:
His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.Since dispensational premillennialism had already established itself as a part of the evangelical mainstream, it was only a matter of time before U.S. politicians who had been born and raised in that evangelical tradition began to let their theology affect their political ideology. In 1919, President Woodrow Wilson signaled his approval of the Balfour Declaration when he said, "The allied nations with the fullest concurrence of our government and people are agreed that in Palestine shall be laid the foundations of a Jewish Commonwealth."
American politicians have continued to voice their strong support for Israel, though little has been mentioned as to why Israel is such an important ally. But that really isn't the issue I want to explore. What seems to be driving the U.S.-Israel relationship, as far as evangelical Christians are concerned, is the popular belief that the nation of Israel still plays an important role in prophecy, and those not wanting to be caught facing the business end of God's wrathful sword come Judgment Day are pushing for more U.S. involvement in the Middle East. About the only reasons we hear are that we have a "moral obligation" to stand behind Israel or that it's simply "the right thing to do."
Dispensational premillennialists typically quote the Book of Psalms when speaking of our "obligation" to support Israel. "Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: 'May they prosper who love you'" (Ps. 122:6). This passage has been accepted by many Christians as a universal command by which all believers are bound to pray for the physical city of Jerusalem, lest they fall out of favor with God. Of course, that isn't the case.
While it may be good and practical to pray for the peace of modern Jerusalem, we should really be praying for peace all across the world—the peace that can only come about through the Good News of Jesus Christ. So, in a spiritual sense, Psalm 122 does apply to Christians today. We should pray for the peace of the spiritual Jerusalem, the church (Heb. 12:22), for the well-being of our brothers and sisters in Christ and the furtherance of the Gospel.
Many Christians, however, are too wrapped up in their flawed eschatology to realize that their first responsibility is to the church, the body of Christ, and not to a nation of unbelievers. As a result, eyes glance up in anticipation at the eastern sky every time Israel is mentioned in the media, and the practice of interpreting Scripture through newspaper headlines becomes commonplace.
It is interesting to see the ensuing pandemonium among evangelical Christians brought about by rumors of war in the Middle East. Believers ignore sound biblical instruction and start buying up extra copies of Left Behind to use as witnessing tools for reaching their non-believing friends. Christian columnists all across America crank out editorial pieces on the Jews' divine claim to the Holy Land and the importance of remaining steadfast in our nation's support of Israel. Jack Van Impe goes on television with an air of righteous vindication and says, "See? My latest reinterpretation of my previous reinterpretation of Revelation was correct! The time of Christ's coming in the clouds is fast approaching!"
Who can blame these Christians for becoming so enraptured (no pun intended) with the idea of being whisked away in the blink of an eye while the world is left to fester for seven years in its own evil juices? It is comforting for people to believe that they will escape tribulation when the end comes.
But ask anyone who holds to the premillennialist view what Christ had in mind when he proclaimed, "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place" (Matt. 24:34). Ask them what the apostle Paul meant when he said, "For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham" (Rom. 9:6b-7a). Ask them why God felt it was necessary to establish a New Covenant (Heb. 8) if the Old Covenant is yet to be fulfilled. Chances are the answers you receive will be less than satisfactory.
The truth is that the covenant God had with Israel finds its fulfillment in Christ. "And if you are Christ's," Paul reminds us, "then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Gal. 3:29). Advocating an "End of the World Is Near" gospel that appeals to gullible Christians and poll-driven politicians cannot be edifying for the body of Christ. If anything, it detracts from the work the Son of God already accomplished through his death and resurrection.
I certainly do not hold myself up as a theologian or biblical scholar, but it doesn't take one to see that the premillennialist paradigm is rather precarious. When a fundamental part of our foreign policy is based on a shaky biblical exegesis and championed by the very people who should know better, it gives one reason to question the immediate future of our nation.
At least we can rest in the fact that God is ultimately in control. His true chosen people, those who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, will not be forsaken, and the glory of the Almighty will shine forth for all the world to see.
Certainly many proverbs as well as the Abrahamic blessings for maintaining a relationship with God would apply, in my opinion. Reaping what one sows when one sows good stuff is a good thing. Honesty in business dealings is a good thing and likely to get return customers. . . etc.
But God's a big God. He certainly doesn't need to cut one group off to bless a 2nd group. And, He can have a different sequence and schedule to bring all into intimacy with The Son.
Not to be further argumentative, but the same can be said for a number of preterists. The simply truth is that there is no simple truth in eschatology. I have spent a lot of time reading about various eschatological viewpoints, and there is not a single one out there that doesn't have to "jump through hoops" to reconcile passages which appear on the surface not to align with their position. There is quite simply NO way to arrive at any firm view from a plain reading of the text that is non-contradictory and backed up by historical fact. I am not saying the answer is not before us. I am only saying that we cannot seem to grasp fully what it is, whether we are not meant to or simply do not have the ability.
Most Christians will say that they believe in the fundamentals of Biblical interpretation. [SNIP] But in order for the still-future fulfillment interpretation to hold up, a gap had to be inserted into the text.
Again, non-dispensationalists are guilty of the same thing. I have yet to see anyone apply these fundamentals consistently and thoroughly and come up with a non-contradicting construct.
One of the interesting things about many dispensationalists is the almost rabid visciousness with which they defend their position. For them, questioning their eschatological beliefs is tantamount to questioning their salvation. A few months ago I read a post on FR that said, "If I can't trust God to keep His promises to Israel, how can I trust that He will keep His promises to me?" While this may sound like a reasonable approach, it isn't. Assuming that the dispensational model is true, how can anyone point to God's promises to Israel as examples of His faithfulness when those promises have not yet been fulfilled?
Here I agree with you. If our salvation rested upon our eschatological view, we'd all be in a LOT of trouble. There are many more important things in our Christian lives than trying to figure out what will or has taken place in regards to the end times. The social prevalence of the dispensationalist view has led to many people arguing fervently for it who really haven't done any serious, objective study of it for themselves, but are nevertheless so convinced of their correctness that they would jeopardize Christian fellowship over it. I personally have no problem in admitting I do not know what the correct interpretation is.
But don't expect rational thinking from such people. They have had this pounded into their brains for so long that it's absolutely inconceivable for them to imagine any other possible interpretation of even the most clear passages of Scripture. And I am convinced that the church has suffered as a result.
I agree, although the implication here seems to be that ALL dispensational pre-mills are non-rational people which is not the case.
I am encouraged now that I have seen a number of others express their concerns with the prevailing eschatological school of thought in the church today. I believe this number will grow, especially as more false prophecies fail to pan out.
I am not so much concerned with which view is prevalent as I am with how it is being presented and marketed. As I said before, I cannot say with any authority that the view is wholly and completely wrong because I do not know. I will continue to study, and may perhaps come to a conclusion some day, but I'm quite confident in knowing that I could die today undecided in regards to eschatology and still come before the Lord clothed in the righteousness of Christ.
I'll provide an example: shock rock singer "Marilyn Manson" was raised in that drab, hyper-dispensational fundamentalist ethos. A strict upbringing energized by "prophecy books" drove him in the other direction. You can also note a similar trend as documented by Barna and Gallup surveys: as a rule, 80% of the kids raised in evangelical homes are not walking with God (attending an evangelical church) five years after leaving home.
Defective world-views have consequences. Generations of Christians poisoned by dispensensationalism are losing credibility with their own children, let alone the watching world.
Do we really wish to continue discrediting the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ by obsessively indulging ourselves in fortune-telling?
Winners and lovers shape the future;
Losers and whiners try to predict it
The Bible is clear about faith coming from hearing the Word of God, which gives the Holy Spirit something to work with in the person. The corollary is that it's not man's word that saves, we are just the instrument of sharing God's Word. Unfortunately too many well intentioned believers think they can talk a person into heaven. A good salesman can get a person's head shaking in the right direction, but that doesn't mean he has bought anything of value or even that he bought what the person is selling.
You can be sure an abundance of adequate, fitting etc. clear verses are shared in appropriate ways at appropriate times. I'm a reformed "flood em with verses" fellow at 55 years of age. I like the one you quoted and certainly include those points redundantly at fitting times.
I've got you beat by three years and am still tempted at times to toss out "spiritual spears." One evidence of maturity is patience in our dealings. Nevertheless, I really think it's great you quote Scripture in your classes, particularly in a public institution. Keep up the good work. Thanks for your candid reply.
Care to provide a few examples?
Apparently you don't read Acts 1-7 very carefully. The apostles and disciples did believe He would return soon and demonstrated their belief by selling all they had and sharing with others of the "little flock" of Jewish believers. This was a "foretaste" of the kingdom they were preparing to enter. But following the rejection of God the Holy Spirit by the stoning of Stephen, God placed His program with Israel on temporary hold, per Romans chapters 9 - 11. Instead of beginning the pouring out of God's wrath, which was the next event on the prophetic calendar, God instituted a new program of Gentile grace. This resulted in delaying the kingdom program some 2000 years now.
To believe the preterist view is to use extra-biblical information rather than the Word of God. The Word is clear as to why God is now dealing with Jew and Gentile on equal footing rather than dealing with the Jew only. Unfortunately, people read the Scriptures, or more likely, what someone has written about the Scriptures, with biases that cloud and distort the true meaning. If 70 AD concluded the Jewish program and God said the church, the Body of Christ is now Israel, why does John not mention this in the book of the Revelation? There is nothing in Scripture about the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, therefore any meaning attached to that event is based on the will of man, not of God, and is from extra-biblical sources, such as Josephus. You know what it says about adding to the Word of God!
Jesus gave us the answer, in fact, right in the verse you quoted by didn't finish. Here is the entire verse of John 18:36:
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. KJV
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."NIV
Which part of now do you not understand?
“When the LORD returns to Zion, they will see it with their own eyes. Burst into songs of joy together, you ruins of Jerusalem, for the LORD has comforted his people, he has redeemed Jerusalem.”
How can you not see this as a promise specifically to the nation and people of Israel? There is also the passage in Zechariah, 12:10 – 13:1:
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
“On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be great, like the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.
“The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, and all the rest of the clans and their wives.
"On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.”
This clearly refers to a future occurrence, at which the majority of Jews will recognize Jesus as the messiah. It is a promise to Israel.
I don't keep score.
Well, we may or may not be talking about the same thing, but the Bible is heavy on prophecy. No, we don't want to look into crystal balls or the like, but Biblical prophecy is not fortune-telling.
Therefore, whether a person or a nation/country blesses or curses us or the church, the Body of Christ, it has no impact on being blessed or on being prosperous.
So you believe a nation that overtly persecutes the church has nothing to fear from God? The Sudan and Saudi Arabia come to mind. Perhaps I misunderstand you.
Wellllllll, personally, I don't think a LOT of the end time prophecies require much, if any interpretation. Israel becoming a nation again in a day seems pretty plain to me.
Even the Gog and Magog thing is easily traceable to people groups.
And the northern most country north of Israel is easily traceable.
Of course there are those of many different persuasions who seem to take comfort in calling this or that SYMBOLIC.
But it's been my observation in reading The Bible and in observing God's ways in the world, HE TENDS TO DO LITERALLY WHAT HE SAYS--DOWN TO THE LAST MICROSCOPIC DETAIL. I don't know if it's His hobby, His Nature, His fun, His attention to detail or what--I'd tend to guess it's His Nature.
Some items--such as in Relation and even in some Old Testament dreams etc. are labeled symbolic and some others seem to be symbolic. And certainly He hides things from those He wishes to hide things from.
But on average--and probably 95% of the time--I'd call it a VERY SAFE BET to take Him literally. PERHAPS literally AND symbolically--but at least literally. And, often enough prophetic Scriptures have fulfillments occurring a couple of different times. . . perhaps even more a time or 2.
Perhaps those overgiven to crying SYMBOLIC are hoping for a symbolic punishment for their willful blindness, if they are wrong.
Just received an interesting email or two, today in this ball park:
THE FIRST ONE IS:
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Messengers Of The Covenant
(June 2nd, 2002)
Malachi 3:1 ~~ "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts."
As so often has happened this past year, I experienced a vision where I was in a wilderness setting. The Lord was also with me. I heard the sound of raised voices crying out in the midst of the wilderness. I looked around, but at first saw no one else in the wilderness with the Lord and I.
"What is the sound of these voices?" I asked the Lord.
"These are the messengers of My covenant," the Lord replied. "Behold!"
I stared in the direction the Lord was pointing. At first, I saw only what appeared to be a mist. As I continued to gaze into the mist, I began to see the shapes of many other people in the wilderness. I saw next to each of these people an angel. I was perplexed when I saw that the angels appeared to be removing objects from the hands of the person they were standing next to. The people were objecting to having these things removed from their hands, and were crying out.
"What is happening?" I asked the Lord. "What are the angels taking from the hands of these people?"
"All that is not of Me is being taken and removed from the hearts and lives of these people," the Lord replied.
"What will they be left with?" I asked the Lord.
"Nothing except Me and that which is of Me," the Lord replied. "This process is now complete. Now it is a time of being ministered to."
I watched silently as the angels reached out and began to touch and minister to the person they were standing next to. Each person had the appearance of having been through a tremendous ordeal, but as the angels continued to touch and minister to them, it was like I could see strength entering into them.
I then watched as each person was given a change of clothing. After each person had changed their garments, they were then given a package.
"What are these packages?" I asked the Lord.
"Each package contains exactly what the person receiving it is in need of to speak forth My word to others," the Lord replied. "With what is contained within their package, each person will be equipped to administer a particular message from Me to those to whom I send them."
I watched and saw as the people began to open up their individual packages. Some packages contained swords or other types of weaponry. Some of the packages contained small bottles with what appeared to be oil in them. I saw that still other packages contained what appeared to be medicines and/or food items. There were also packages which contained fishing paraphernalia. Some of the people had shovels and other types of farming equipment in their packages. Still other packages contained items such as axes, hammers, etc.
After each person had opened up their package, they then advanced to the very edge of the wilderness. Soon, the people were lined up beside each other at the perimeter of the wilderness. They were all standing very still, gazing fixedly outwards from the wilderness.
I followed the direction of the eyes of the people, and realized we were staring out into the nations of the world.
The nations and the people of the nations were in great turmoil and distress. It seemed that the entire world was seething with a tremendous restlessness. The seasons appeared to be mixed-up, which seemed to be causing great drought and devastation of crops in many of the nations. As a result, I saw boarded up stores or stores with empty shelves. Other nations were receiving an overabundance of rain and were being flooded; crops and houses were being swept away in the fierce rains.
I saw nation at war with nation. The people of the nations had the appearance of fear and terror on their faces.
The Lord began to separate the people into two groups according to what their packages contained. One group held in their hands what appeared to be weapons of warfare. The other group held in their hands what appeared to be items of healing, farming, construction, etc.
"What are these two groups of people?" I asked the Lord.
"One group will speak forth My blessings to the obedient of the world," the Lord replied. "The other group will speak forth My judgments on the disobedient."
The Lord then went and stood before the two groups of people.
"The time has fully come," He said to them.
The Lord then spoke to the group of people who held in their hands items of farming, building and/or construction tools.
"I send you forth to preach repentance and to heal those who are in need of healings," He said to them. "You will confirm My covenant of peace and blessings to the obedient who are weary, discouraged and in need of strengthening. Remind them of My mercy."
The Lord then turned to the group of people who appeared to be holding weapons of warfare in their hands. "I send you forth to declare My words of judgment against the ungodly who refuse to turn from their wicked ways," the Lord said to them.
"Go!" the Lord commanded both groups of people.
I turned and watched as the two groups of people converged on the nations of the world.
I watched as one group brought healings, restoration, hope, etc., to the people of the nations who loved the Lord. I watched as things that had been broken down were built back up by them. I saw as some of the people from the wilderness cast out nets into the oceans of the world, and when they drew the nets back to shore, had gathered the souls of the lost. This scene thrilled my heart.
I also observed as the other group of people, with their axes and/or weapons of warfare, fought against those who refused to submit to the authority of the Lord God. All that was against the Lord, was hewn down. These scenes filled me with dread.
"What is this all about, Lord?" I asked the Lord.
The Lord turned and answered me. "These are prophets of the Highest, messengers of My covenant," He said to me. "I have prepared them, proved them and known them in their time in the wilderness. They go before Me to prepare the way for My return. And truly, child, My return is near; even at the doors."
Wordlessly, I turned and once again began to watch the messengers of the covenant as they went forth into the world with their message from the Lord.
In Him, ~~ Hollie L. Moody
(For further study of the blessings of obedience and cursings of disobedience, read Leviticus 26.)
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THE 2ND ONE IS:
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The America's Cups
Suzin McNeill -------------- zionshandmaiden@netscape.net
I saw the map of The United States with a thin golden veil placed directly above it. Upon each state there were two cups of the finest china I had ever seen. I was able to examine many of the cups and read the labels from Spode, Lenox, Waterford, Royal Worcester,Mikasa, Wedgwood, Noritaki, Royal Albert, and Johnson Brothers. Each cup had very unique designs and there were not two cups alike. Light shimmered on each cup. A golden liquid was in one cup and then there was a darker mixture of some sort in the other cup with vapors of steam encircling it concealing the contents. Some states seemed to have their cups almost full of the mixture while some had the mixture only partially within it.
JESUS said unto me, I have shown you two cups on every state. My cup is full of the golden oil and My own blood. The second cup is rapidly filling and as this cup fills with its own worldly mixtures I must judge both the state and its' people. My FATHER has committed all judgment unto Me. If , state by state, city by city, town by town, and person by person would gather together in prayer, they can diminish the mixture of the cup upon their state. Fervent prayer brings each one to the acceptance of My FATHER'S will.
As I prayed even in the garden, FATHER, let this cup pass, so must the people gathering in My name pray. The steadfast acceptance of My FATHER'S will always brings both consequences and blessings. Prayer alone will postpone the filling of each cup of mixture. Pour My cup forth upon the states. Intercessors join Me in prayer with a vengeance against the sins contained in these stately cups. As the cup becomes full of this mixture of the sins of Babylon, My judgment comes. State by state, person by person, the cups is filling. Shall this cup pass and My warnings go unheeded in America?
Will you watch and pray with Me in this most crucial hour? Will you pour My blood upon your state and upon yourself? Will you cry for My mercy through your own deepened repentance? One by one I have called you. I call you now to collectively pray without ceasing in this hour for both your state and your country. America, true repentance will pour out My cup upon you. Come stand in the blood of My cup and in the golden oil of anointing. Come, watch and pray as the holy people you have been called to be. Make your watch strong. Will you watch and pray with Me in this most crucial hour?
Shepherds, you have been the cupbearers for My people. What have you fed them and given them to drink? What shall you say unto The King, of the dregs of thine own cup when you have offered my people a mixture from the cup of pride and your own cup of denial? I see the sheep of your flocks in drunkenness and staggering. I see them unprepared for the days ahead. Shall I take this lightly? Do you not know that I am the jealous God? I will loose My apostles and My prophets to go forth and speak warnings unto all the cities of America and to all of the people who call themselves by My name.They will speak all the words that I command them to speak and will diminish not a word for I have commanded and sent them.
New faces shall appear in your assemblies and they will not walk in the protocols of man, but they will walk in the holiness of their LORD. They shall go forth from state to state and church to church and person to person to give warning. These warnings, even severe warnings shall come forth because of My great love for My people.
Behold evil shall go forth from nation to nation and those who stand against My people, Israel, shall both drink and fear the cup of astonishment and desolation that shall be poured forth from the cup of My fury.
Set up the standards of holiness and obedience and make the watch strong. Set up the watchmen for as I send forth My apostles and My prophets they shall come unto thee suddenly as in an ambush if you refuse My correction. Repent for your own sins. Repent for the sins of your states, cities, towns, neighbors, and your own self. Repent until you stand in the holy place of the acceptance of My FATHER'S will saying not my will but,Your will be done. Repent for the leaders who stagger before Me. Repent for the mixtures of sins that fill the stately cups and the cups of your own heart.
Repent and drink of My cup for the cleansing of this nation, America. Repent. Repent swiftly.
A Handmaidens' Prayer
FATHER, in JESUS name we call on the power of the cup of Jesus' blood and ask You to pour out this cup over us, and in us and forgive us. Remove the dregs of Your judgments against us and lead us in the right paths of holiness for Your name sake. LORD, wash and cleanse us the assemblies as we gather together. Let us not take the cup of JESUS' blood lightly. Forgive our transgressions and iniquities and restore us in Thy favor.
FATHER, we set our wills to receive Your chastening and warnings through the apostles and prophets You send to us. Let us not be found in contempt, pride, or denial of Your sent ones. We open our hearts toward You and cry remove the offences we have committed against You, Your people Israel, and one another. We acknowledge that there is no hiding before You. All things are bare and manifest before You. As a bride would choose her bridal patterns of china we long to be chosen by You as a people who walk holy. Prepare us in repentance. Pour forth the cup of the blood of JESUS upon our states and country in JESUS name. Amen 6-7-2002
Jeremiah 25:14 For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands.
15 For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.
16 And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword that I will send among them.
17 Then took I the cup at the LORD'S hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me:
18 [To wit], Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah, and the kings thereof, and the princes thereof, to make them a desolation, an astonishment, an hissing, and a curse; as [it is] this day;
19 Pharaoh king of Egypt, and his servants, and his princes, and all his people;
20 And all the mingled people, and all the kings of the land of Uz, and all the kings of the land of the Philistines, and Ashkelon, and Azzah, and Ekron, and the remnant of Ashdod,
21 Edom, and Moab, and the children of Ammon,
22 And all the kings of Tyrus, and all the kings of Zidon, and the kings of the isles which [are] beyond the sea,
23 Dedan, and Tema, and Buz, and all [that are] in the utmost corners,
24 And all the kings of Arabia, and all the kings of the mingled people that dwell in the desert,
25 And all the kings of Zimri, and all the kings of Elam, and all the kings of the Medes,
26 And all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another, and all the kingdoms of the world, which [are] upon the face of the earth: and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them.
27 Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you.
28 And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink.
29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.
30 Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread [the grapes], against all the inhabitants of the earth.
31 A noise shall come [even] to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them [that are] wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.
32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
NO! Prophetic messages which are authentic having nothing to do with fortune telling, satan etc.
And, it is the Body of Christ’s task to sort out which fit the Scriptures and Holy Spirit’s move at the time.
And we are all responsible to weigh things before Scripture, The Lord and our own hearts.
AND when the angels at the Ascension remarked that He would be seen coming again in like manner --that they were just joking or having some perverse fun with the disciples?
Joseph was sold into slavery.
Moses was readily abandoned at Sinai.
The two spies were rejected.
The list could go on.
God knew what He was getting into when He (A) created man and (B) when He chose the descendants of (1) Abraham and (2) Jacob (supplanter, manipulator)/Israel as His chosen people--a stiff-necked people group, for sure. They kind of remind me of Replacement Theologians.
He's threatened to obliterate them and start over a time or two. And He could do it in a flash and still end up with descendents of the 12 tribes. After all, even we can clone now. . . AND HE WOULD STILL BE FAITHFUL TO ALL THE END TIME PROPHECIES.
Perhaps there's another explanation?
Perhaps He meant it is legally finished, settled, done?
If it was "finished" as you seem to construe it, why did He go away to prepare a PLACE for us? Supposedly His carpentry would also have been THEN finished!
Ahhhh, but I see--you want to pick and choose what's finished ACCORDING TO YOUR LOGIC! Ah so! Cute.
I think my CPU works differently.
Of course following God yields blessings. Even atheists following God's laws would experience a measure of sowing and reaping blessing.
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