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To: RnMomof7
The grace of God makes man born again..it makes him the perfect creation that God had planned him to be before the fall.....once the man is born again his desires change and he now not only can choose God ,but he desires to choose God.

God does not demand that we desire to choose Him, but that we obey, whether we desire to or not. There is no virtue in doing what one desires. Virture is in doing right, in spite of our desires.

This Calvinist idea that sin has to do with desire is very destructive and deceptive. One does not need to desire God to choose to obey Him, one only needs to understand what is right, and to do it.

If you only ever choose what you desire, and never choose what you do not desire, you are not a child of God.

Hank

136 posted on 05/06/2002 8:49:47 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief; OrthodoxPresbyterian; the_doc; CCWoody; RnMomof7; rdb3; Wrigley; Jean Chauvin...
"God does not demand that we desire to choose Him, but that we obey, whether we desire to or not."

BINGO!!

This is exactly what we have been saying for more than two years now, but the Arminians haven't given us the charity of conceding that this is what we believe.

We have stated, over and over and over, that man is required to obey God, that he is responsible for this obedience regardless of his desires. Yet, as we have demonstrated in Scripture, no man will obey, no man will choose any God pleasing action, in and of himself, for he doesn't want to do so. This is no way invalidates the responsibility or minimizes the penalty for non-obedience.

This is why the Holy Spirit needs to regenerate those who are dead in trespasses and sins. This is the miracle of the new birth, the implanting of a heart that loves God and seeks to please Him.

140 posted on 05/07/2002 5:59:56 AM PDT by Jerry_M
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To: Hank Kerchief; Jerry_M; RnMomof7; drstevej; Jean Chauvin
God does not demand that we desire to choose Him, but that we obey, whether we desire to or not. There is no virtue in doing what one desires. Virture is in doing right, in spite of our desires.

This Calvinist idea that sin has to do with desire is very destructive and deceptive. One does not need to desire God to choose to obey Him, one only needs to understand what is right, and to do it.

Hank, in all utter seriousness, unless you have a strong passion and desire for the Lord himself then your worship is a foul stench in His nostrils. In fact, worship can only be authentic if it is bourne out of our desire for the Lord. Please rethink your entire RELIGION.

Will you say to the Almighty: "I don't desire you, I'll just get by with obeying?"

Unless you have a zeal for the Lord himself, then He will not have a zeal for you.

141 posted on 05/07/2002 6:04:47 AM PDT by CCWoody
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