Posted on 05/04/2002 4:43:38 PM PDT by RnMomof7
You really think that we believe the same thing? Sorry, I'm not buying it. If the Gospel is truth, then any adulteration of the Gospel is a lie. Much of what is presented here as gospel is no better than the "lie of Eden".
WHAAAAAAAAAT??????
You are surely joking!!!
Proverbs 6
12 A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth.
13 He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers;
14 Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord.
15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy.
This naughty person is a man of Belial. He is a "worthless" person. This word occurs 27 times in the OT. It is what is being described in Psalm 101:He walks with a forward mouth in direct opposition to God in his perversity. His whole body eyes, feet, and hands all speak perversity. Perversity is in his heart and he sows discord for out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.
- Psa 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; [it] shall not cleave to me.
He that devises mischief shall fall into mischief. Without warning his ruin will come and he will be broken without remedy.
- Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
- Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
- Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
And we were all men of Satan before our conversion to the Light.
- 1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
- Rom 3:9-18,23 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:
Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet [are] swift to shed blood:
Destruction and misery [are] in their ways:
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes....
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;- Tit 3:3-7 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
If we truly believe essentially the same thing, then please name for me the gospel. It can be done in exactly 5 words. Then, please express this gospel. That can be done in exactly 3 words.
The point is that we preach a fundamentally different gospel. I do not preach a gospel of friendship. I do not preach a gospel of tare sowing. I do not preach a gospel that man is not really dead, i.e. the Lie of Eden.
And there has not been 1 single Arminian that has taken the gospel challenge and been able to answer.
2 weeks ago, the teacher asked me why I always talk about salvation every week. Well, over the last 2 weeks, we have found out. This class isn't ready for anything other than a salvation message.
We need to continue to proclaim that message, knowing that the Holy Spirit will bring conviction of sin, and that it is He who will plant belief in new hearts.
That is why I told xzins that if I was ever invited to preach in his church I would tell his congregation that they need to repent of their sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Isn't that what I'm saying? It's interesting that Christ doesn't say "If any man will come after me, let me make him come after me and and I will will make him take up his cross daily and I will make him follow me."
What they are generating is not hatred because of the Gospel, but hatred because they are jerks. If we present the Gospel in a loving manner with a true concern that we are the representatives of Christ on earth, then we can be certain that those who reject the gospel and hate us will be hating us for Christ's sake and not because we are jerks. If we are hated because we are jerks, then we have no claim that we are being persecuted for Christ, we are merely being persecuted because we ourselves deserve it. It is a persecution of our "works" not of our Lord.
I'm sorry, but that seems crystal clear to me. God calls, we obey. We obey God, we obtain God's blessings. The bible is full of examples of people obeying and disobeying God. This denotes an element of will. Adam and Eve themselves CHOSE not to obey God. They exercised their will and chose wrongly. The bible is so clear on this that there shouldn't even be a debate:
John 15:14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
Not "You are my friend because I make you do whatever I command you."
Act 7:51 O stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so you do.
People were resisting the Holy Spirit! How could that be without self will?
2Ti 3:8 But as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so these also resist the truth, men of corrupt mind, reprobate concerning the faith.
More people using their will to resist God.
The bible talks like God is calling people and people are resisting. They are not chosen because they resist God. Logically, that MUST mean that God isn't forcing them to choose him. Logically, that must mean that those elected DO choose to follow God.
It is absolutely true that we would not be saved except by the grace of God. No question. What I am disputing is that God forces anyone to accept his grace. He does not.
By freely submitting our will to God we allow God to wrought the changes in us.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Jam 4:7 Therefore submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Save the drama for your "momma!"
First, In Ephesians and in James, those instructions are to those who are already in the faith. They are not directed to unbelievers.
With that out of the way, let's address what I see to be your biggest challenge. You keep talking about God "forcing Himself" on His elect. What you fail to notice is the fact that we are talking about "irresistable grace", meaning that this grace, when presented to the elect, is too good to resist. Why does God have to "force" me to accept Him when His grace is so desirable that I would jump over the furniture to receive it? God woos His elect, and gathers them to Himself on the basis of His irresistable charms. (Much like I wooed my wife with my irresistable charms!)
Agreed. I never claimed otherwise. That does not, however, negate our totally free will in our choice. He allows you to do and think and decide whatever you want to. That includes sinners seeking out God and the Gospel.
Point to be made here shadow is you would not expect a legless man to run a marathon. The unregenerate can not "choose" Christ. They have the will given to them by Adam.That is the will that chose to run and hide from God...In order to choose to run TO God you need to be born again...
Every man does just as HE chooses..but like the legless man our choices are limited by our "natural born state.
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. ..
Like Adam the natual man runs from God not to Him
Because I am a non conformist I do:>)
Sick..really sick............LOL
So your will is stronger than God's grace and stronger than God's desire to save you? Are you sure you are really not god ?:>)))
Did God know that Adam and Eve were going to sin before He made them?
Was that written to believers or unbelievers?
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