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To: RnMomof7
No praying to the dead is unscriptural.....show me the assumption...or prayers to the dead in scripture...History only God is omnipresent..so only God can be present to all our thoughts and all our prayers at the same time.. ...

...Right now Mary and all of the Saints are doing exactly what they were created for..enjoying God forever.. Rev 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

Yes, Mary and all the Saints are enjoying God forever, ALIVE in the kingdom of God. Isn't that what we are all striving for here on Earth? Eternal life?

Therefore, we are not "praying to the dead" (we don't pray to saints, either, we ask for their intercession, essentially for them to pray for us).

The earliest church fathers practiced praying for the dead:

Tertullian (211) Wrote that Christians offered prayer and the Eucharist for the deceased on the anniversaries of their death.

St. Augustine (354 - 430) wrote: "Neither are the souls of the pious dead separated from the Church, which even now is the Kingdom of Christ. Otherwise there would be no remembrance of them at the altar of God in the communication of the Body of Christ."

So we are in communion with the saints in Heaven. It is right to ask for their prayers.

As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth.

Revelation 5:8 John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." (And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. Rev 5:8); also: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4)

If the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Throughout Scripture St. Paul and other apostles, and especially Jesus Christ Himself, ask us not only to pray for one another or for them, but to pray for those we don't know or even like.

I think that it's important to realize that the Catholic Mass -- the central act of Catholic worship -- directs all prayer and worship to God and His Son, Jesus Christ our Savior. God is the beginning and end of all prayer, even those prayers where we ask fellow Christians -- particularly those in Heaven and closer to God -- to pray for us.

God bless.

259 posted on 04/30/2002 1:54:21 PM PDT by Gophack
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To: Gophack
Gop read the scriputre without your RC terminology turned on

Rev 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Psa 141:2 Let my prayer be set forth before thee [as] incense; [and] the lifting up of my hands [as] the evening sacrifice.

That scripture is using the word just as the early church did..I am a Saint..all believer are saints...and all of our prayer is represented by the incense

Show me a scripture that says we should pray to the dead....and I know you say "intercessor" but the Bible says..1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

I ask again how do the saints ..that are not gods and are not omnipresent hear all your prayers? Unless you give them gods nature it is impossible

264 posted on 04/30/2002 2:41:28 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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