Posted on 04/26/2002 9:01:52 AM PDT by WhatNot
Many churches focus on the "eucharist," which for them means the bread of the Lord's Supper. Other believer's don't think the concept of the eucharist is Biblical. But the concept of "eucharist" is Biblical. The word "eucharist" comes from the Greek "eu" meaning "good" and "charis" meaning "grace" or "blessing." The eucharist at the Last Supper was not the bread itself, but the blessing Messiah said over the bread. The blessing is one said in Jewish homes to this day: "Baruch Atah Adonai Elohaynu Melech Ha Olam, Ha Motzee Lechem Min Ha Aretz" - "Blessed are You O Lord Our God, King of the Universe, Who brings forth bread from the earth." This is the true eucharist.
The true eucharist is never eaten, it is given. It is a blessing of thanks to God. It's not the bread, it is the blessing over the bread. And this distinction can change your life. Life doesn't consist of the things you have, but the blessings you say over them. You only truly have what you bless and give thanks for. Give the blessing of thanks over your, bread - your parents, your family, your friends, your situation - over everything, good and bad. And your life itself will be truly blessed, for such is the true eucharist.
Luke 22:14-20
TODAY'S MISSION
Prepare a private communion service today, with you and Messiah. Lift up to Him those things that need to receive His blessing - your loved ones, your job, your ministry.
Name ONE congregation, anywhere in the world, which EXPRESSLY claims the soteriology of Calvinist monergism (Total Human Depravity and Unconditional Predestination), and is yet Apostate on the core moral issues of Homosexuality and Abortion. Name One. I dare you. Because despite the fact that there are MILLIONS of Calvinist monergists, there aren't any Moral Apostate congregations in the entire Confession. ·
Name ONE Roman Catholic congregation, anywhere in the world, which EXPRESSLY claims the soteriology of Roman Catholic synergism (Human Moral Competence and Conditional Predestination), and is yet Apostate on the core moral issues of Homosexuality and Abortion. I'll save you the trouble -- THERE ARE THOUSANDS of such apostate Roman congregations.LOL. So logically mapped, your statement reads (1) “name one Calvinist congregation that fits my central criteria for being a Calvinist that I harp on day in and day out, and is pro-abort, there aren’t any.” (2) Name one Catholic that fits one small piece of Catholic doctrine, and is pro-abort, there are thousands!
Of course there are Catholics who are essentially non-Catholics, and who are also thus pro-abort. There are also Calvinists who are essentially non-Calvinists, and who are also thus pro-abort. Given, however, that the Pope has clearly stated that material cooperation in an abortion makes one excommunicated, your little example is silly.
Bump to a few of the Orthodox for your silly little slap at them as well.
patent +AMDG
How can you win a debate with those who don't believe that *you* can properly interpret Scripture? Nor with those who believe that it isn't valid to use Scripture alone, in spite of what Jesus said:
".... do not give yourselves [pretentious titles .. you [regenerate] are all brothers ... [and] you have ONE *Teacher*, the Christ." [Matt.23:8-10].
Unlike the Bereans, who listened to a preacher (a brother), and then checked Scripture to "see if these things are so", those that don't believe Christ's words [above] will always have a guru in place that they trust as the only one that can understand "the mysteries" and will therefore "interpret" the Scriptures for them and tell them what to think about them.
I'm sure that they also think that this relieves them of any *personal responsibility* if the guru is *wrong* in what he tells them they should believe.
Anyhow, only those who view the closed canon of Scripture as the *final authority* on matters of Christian doctrine, will highly esteem "biblical verses" alone, and trust the One Teacher to lead them into all [Scriptural] Truth.
Some of that "Scriptural Truth" is this: All regenerate Christians are saints, and as such are members of the universal (catholic) church. They have One "Holy Father" and He is in heaven.
patent
Name ONE Roman Catholic congregation, anywhere in the world, which EXPRESSLY claims the soteriology of Roman Catholic synergism (Human Moral Competence and Conditional Predestination), and is yet Apostate on the core moral issues of Homosexuality and Abortion. I'll save you the trouble -- THERE ARE THOUSANDS of such apostate Roman congregations.By the way, you have made me curious. Please name these congregations, and provide your support for their claiming each of the things you list:
(1) claims the soteriology of Roman Catholic synergism (Human Moral Competence)
(2) and claims the soteriology of Roman Catholic synergism (Conditional Predestination),
(3) and is yet Apostate on the core moral issue of Homosexuality
(4) and is yet Apostate on the core moral issue of Abortion.
You’ve made the claim, back it up. I won’t hold my breath, you’ve made several claims on this thread that you haven’t backed up.
patent +AMDG
Jean
Paul's main argument against the Law was two fold. The first (and explained in the first half of Galatians) was that the works of the Law could not justify a man.
Justification is a legal language that is borrowed from the courts. In Scriptures, the term justify does not mean to make one righteous. It means, as far as the Law is concerned, they are declared righteous. God declares, as far as I am concerned, in regards to God's Law, I am throughly acquitted.
The issue of the Law as a justifier comes up because men came into the Galatian church and told them that salvation is not by faith... justification is not by faith... it is by works of the Law. Gentiles could not be saved (justified) unless they were circumcised and kept the Mosaic Law. The first half of the letter to the Galatians shows them that justification was always been by faith.
Justification does not suggest the infusion of moral qualities or the creation of right conduct. It implies that justification of the ungodly, who believes on the basis of the justifying action of God in the death and resurrection of Jesus. The temptation is to smuggle character into justification and for some reason make that the reason God justifies me.
So clearly did Paul teach it that he was accused of "teaching the men should keeping sinning so grace can abound".
This misunderstanding of Paul's Gospel is one of the main reasons why Jewish believers (Judiazers) were so concerned with having Gentiles keep the Law. If the Law has been set aside, what would keep these pagan Gentiles from living like heathens. Without rules such as "thou shalt not kill, or thou shalt not commit adultery" how would these heathens ever learn holiness.
Paul never compromises on the issue of holiness. Character is important. But, Paul (in the 2nd part of Galatians) uses the argument of the indwelling Christ as the teacher of true holiness. Who would teach these pagans? The Holy Spirit would teach them. When Paul comes up against a local church behaving improperly, he would exhort them with such sentences as "you have not so learned Christ."
The standard of behavior was never the Law. The standard of behavior, the plumb line, was always Christ. Only Christ can teach Christ. Does Christ disobey God? No.
Jesus says by their fruit you shall know them. If a man says he is a saint, but acts like a heathen then I would have my doubts. If a man says that he has the truth but hates his brother, then I would probably not listen to his truth because it is not borne out in his life. It is in his life that Christ is known. (And I am talking about a pattern of consistent behavior)
So, to answer your question... can a man disobey God and still be saved is relative. Can a man live his whole life disobeying God and still be saved? No. Example: If someone came up to me and said that he was saved but he was never faithful to his wife and has had numerous affairs in the past and planned to have some in the future... and didn't really care that God said "thou shalt not commit adultery". Then no. Can a man sin (which is disobeying God) repent and be restored. Yes.
Really? Then, by all means, name ONE such parish that is in communion with the Eastern Orthodox Church. Please include the full name of the church and their location. It would be helpful if you can include the name and phone number of the priest as I will be calling him and asking about this. However, if you can't give me the phone number, I'll be able to find it as all of the canonical Orthodox churches have clergy directories on the web.
I would have thought that "irresistable grace" would prevent one from bearing false witness.
That or he doesn't have it.
patent
:D
To quote one of my Commentaries [Re: Matt.23:1-12]:
"Jesus now goes on the offensive, and "offensive" is not too strong a word for much of the language he uses in ch.23. .. It shows Jesus as a fierce controversialist, quite willing to make enemies when the cause demanded it. ... [His] target .. was a class of professional interpreters of Scriptures and ... tradition. ... supposed leaders of the people of God."
Now, you just know they didn't attempt to refute His *Truth*, because they couldn't.
The only thing left to them, then, was to attack Him personally (a glutton and a drunk who hangs out with other reprobates) and His *hateful approach* which isn't *helpful* or *unifying*.
Can't you just hear them whispering to each other about Him if He were here today?: "He's just oh, sooooo partisan and divisive! Totally intolerant!!! What an UNChristian way of speaking. No GODLY person would ever behave in such a way." :D
What an UNChristian way of speaking. No GODLY person would ever behave in such a way." :DCan you show me where Jesus called another a "stubbornly superstitious religious dork?" You are correct that Jesus was not just some nice soft spoken guy. He is God. He did not, though, act like "the_doc" does, and no amount of silly little words stuffed in his mouth by you can change that.
patent
Looks like your *feelings* are getting in the way of *thought*. Are you sure you're a Former Lib? :D
So the Holy Spirit did not bother to inspire a teaching on selling indulgences in His Holy Word..but He inspired the church fathers to sell "get out of jail free " cards for pocket money??
This is a prime example why homosexuals and child abusers over run your church....you can not afford to admit you might have errored in even one small thing..or your whole deck of cards collapses..a church built on the opinion of men collapses
Gal 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
And that which is not included in the scriptures is indeed another gospel. - All that is peculiar to the RC stands in defiance to the writings of Paul.
But even more pointed are the words recorded by John:
Rev 22:18 " For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
But these writings will mean nothing to those who "have no ear," will they?
Gal 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
And that which is not included in the scriptures is indeed another gospel. - All that is peculiar to the RC stands in defiance to the writings of Paul.
But even more pointed are the words recorded by John:
Rev 22:18 " For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
But these writings will mean nothing to those who "have no ear," will they?
This is a prime example why homosexuals and child abusers over run your church....you can not afford to admit you might have errored in even one small thing..or your whole deck of cards collapses..a church built on the opinion of men collapsesExcuse me? The Church has often apologized for things its members have done, and every Catholic admits that even the Pope errs. Especially in areas like the child abusers, we have long admitted that the Bishops truly did a horrendous job with those issues. The fact of the matter though, is that our Church has not collapsed. It has been here for 2000 years now, and is showing no signs of going away. How long has your house of cards been here?
patent
According to the Greek, "Dorkas" was a Christian woman of New Testament times who made clothing for the poor. Maybe her husband Dork really was a religionist who was stubborn and superstitious. If so, I'm sure, knowing His MO, Jesus would have used "Dork" as one of His examples of the types of mentalities his disciples should avoid.:D
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