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To: detsaoT
I thought I presented it in a more step by step logical fashion a proof that either the universe is eternal and uncaused or a god is eternal and uncaused. I don't see why more people haven't bought into my reasoning their is no faith required its just pure logic faith means you believe in something with no rational and therefore no basis.
111 posted on 04/15/2002 1:03:33 PM PDT by weikel
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To: weikel
I thought I presented it in a more step by step logical fashion a proof that either the universe is eternal and uncaused or a god is eternal and uncaused. I don't see why more people haven't bought into my reasoning their is no faith required its just pure logic faith means you believe in something with no rational and therefore no basis.

Pick the most dogmatic of these statements:

* "The universe came into being at some point in time, due to currently unknown circumstances. As a result of an indeterminite chain of events, mankind somehow evolved from primal life to become what he has become."

* "There is a Creator who, by unknown means, decided to Create the earth and its inhabitants, but who chooses not to be involved in world events, as He already knows what would occur anyway."

* "God the Father created the Heavens and the Earth in seven days. Mankind, being perfect, and placed amongst the perfect Creation - but having a free will to make his own decisions - determined that he wished to be As God Was (having knowledge of good and evil), and as a result, he disobeyed God, causing all of Creation to fall into imperfection. As a result, mankind is a being marred by imperfections (evil) which cannot be made whole without the Loving Grace of God the Father, sent to earth by His Son."

(The correct answer is this: _ALL_ of the above statements REQUIRE some leap of faith in order for us to accept them.)

There is no possible way for any of us to be 100% sure, BY OUR OWN MEANS, that ANY the statements above are absolutely factual, without turning off portions of our critical thinking in order to accept the statement which best fits our worldview as a whole.)

Re: the 1st one, (a) there is no proof that Mankind is related in any direct way to the animal kingdom, (b) simple mathematics dictates that the tenets proposed by the above could not have possibly happened by themselves in the timeframe allotted ("billions" of years).

Re: the 2nd one, there is inherently no way to prove or disprove the existence of a spiritual realm/Deity from the physical realm.

Re: the 3rd one, ditto.

See my point? Neither of us is being more or less dogmatic than the other. We're simply dogmatic with respect to completely different dogmas.

:) ttt

118 posted on 04/15/2002 1:15:39 PM PDT by detsaoT
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