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The point is to look at what "these things" means. By all means, if one reads and puts into play all of the things that were written, then one can be reasonably sure of having the Son and hence Christ.

But to simply consider that he wrote just this one or two sentences and that that is all we need to know "to know" that we have eternal life, is to miss the point.

I am adressing the point that John the apostle seems to think that we can know that we have eternal life, ... something you seem to think is above our pay-grade.

And, as always, the very same class of people are addressed, "you that believe." What does that mean? Does that mean those that profess a belief once, or those that show that their beleif is genuine by persevering?

What does believe mean to you, Dave ?

You're fond of dictionary definitions. Here's one for you ...
believe

v. be·lieved, be·liev·ing, be·lieves

v. tr.
1. To accept as true or real: Do you believe the news stories?

2. To credit with veracity: I believe you.

3. To expect or suppose; think: I believe they will arrive shortly.
v. intr.
1. To have firm faith, especially religious faith.

2. To have faith, confidence, or trust: I believe in your ability to solve the problem.

3. To have confidence in the truth or value of something: We believe in free speech.

4. To have an opinion; think: They have already left, I believe.

If one has to endure in anything, it would be belief, for belief is the qualification that scripture puts forth for salvation.

Have you ever considered that one's belief, acted upon by God's grace, produces the qualifications you would add for salvation ?

IOW, those who believe will endure to the end ... or ... those who believe will produce corresponding works.

One of you compatriots (I don't remember which) went through a thorough examination of the salvation of the thief upon the cross ... how the thief's faith (it was all he had) indeed produced a number of corresponding works. His was a good analysis.

However, if this be the case, how could anyone make a declaration of their faith ... and ... have that faith not produce any works ? Why, you would, at the very least, have the very same works that the thief on the cross did!

And, once again, what, besides faith (belief) is there for Christians to endure in ?

It's the only way to make the scriptures harmonize without changing the meanings of words (i.e. believe).

I mean ... look again at John 1:12 ...
But, to those that received Him, to them gave He the power to become the sons of God, even to them which believe on His name.
What do you think that final phrase means (other than what it clearly says) ?

I am adressing the point that John the apostle seems to think that we can know that we have eternal life, ... something you seem to think is above our pay-grade.

If we are honestly following all of the commandments (and not deluding ourselves about that, I might add) then we can be reasonably sure that we "know" we are saved, if we die at that point.

To think that this is because one day we said "I believe" is incorrect. We can know this if we to the things we are suppsoed to do. And we know this as long as we do do those things.

If we cease to do those things, then our sincerity from day one is in doubt.

It is not the mouthing of the words, or the one-time committment, but the every day journey. Always.

If one has to endure in anything, it would be belief, for belief is the qualification that scripture puts forth for salvation.

That is called begging the question. We saw right above it says "believe and love one another." Not just "believe."

BElief is necessary, yes. And if you want to consider it a foundation stone, a sine qua non of salvation, that is jsut fine. I agree.

But to say that it is everything is simply wrong. Yes, faith leads to our good works, but it is not the same thing.

When I set out to become a world class runner, I can trace my victory in the olympics to the day I set out to first run. But I did not win just because of that one day determination. No, I won because I let that determination flower into action and I stuck with it.

And, once again, what, besides faith (belief) is there for Christians to endure in ?

Following Jesus' example. Day in and day out

But, to those that received Him, to them gave He the power to become the sons of God, even to them which believe on His name.

What do you think that final phrase means (other than what it clearly says) ?

I am not sure. It seem to draw a distinction between those who "Receive Him" and those who "believe on His name."

As for following definitions, it is our contention, as shown in James, that the Bible uses "Faith" or "belief" to mean more than an intellectual acceptance of a proposition. More than a determination to follow God. Faith and works are two sides of the same coin. When one is told he must believe, that also means he must obey God.

And the proof of the faith is in the obedience. And the faith saves us only as much as we obey. We are not saved in one golden moment, but rather we are saved as we journey through a life of obedience.

Perseverence is an issue. It is addressed in the NT. We can't pretend it doesn't apply to us.