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To: Quester
If death (whether of the guilty of a sacrifice) is not required

Its not. This is particularly made clear in the later prophets. Just one of many examples:

For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice,
the knowledge of God, rather than burnt offerings. (Hosea 6:6)

what is God doing with the Israelites in the Old Testament ?

Good question. What is the purpose of the sacrifice? Do we really think that God is somehow appeased for a sin by the killing of a lamb? In fact, we know that He is not:

The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD,
but the prayer of the upright is his delight. (Proverbs 15:8)

So we can see that it is not the sacrifice itself that God desires, but rather what it is supposed to represent. Sacrifice without repentance is meaningless, and in fact, an "abomination". However, sacrifice can be a symbol of true repentance.

The question is, what sort of sacrifice does God truly desire, and why would He have established something different? Maimonides, the great Jewish philosopher and theologian, considered this question. In viewing the history of sacrifice in the scripture, he came to the conclusion that God was weaning Israel away from animal sacrifice. The Law regarding sacrifice grew progressively more restrictive. First, they could be offered anywhere, then later only in Jerusalem at the temple. Maimonides believed that God accepted the sacrifices as a concession to the wishes of the Israelites to offer sacrifices to Him as neighboring tribes did to their gods. (Remember Jesus saying that Moses permitted divorce "for your hardness of heart"? This is similar). As time passed, God revealed to Israel what He really desired.

For thou hast no delight in sacrifice;
were I to give a burnt offering, thou wouldst not be pleased.
The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. (Psalm 51:16-17)

With what shall I come before the LORD,
and bow myself before God on high?
Shall I come before him with burnt offerings,
with calves a year old?
Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams,
with ten thousands of rivers of oil?
Shall I give my first-born for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
He has showed you, O man, what is good;
and what does the LORD require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:6-8)

51,662 posted on 05/06/2003 7:37:08 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: malakhi
In viewing the history of sacrifice in the scripture, he came to the conclusion that God was weaning Israel away from animal sacrifice.

Yes, absolutely. So He trumped the very idea of animal sacrifice, and left us with a symbolic (so to speak) alternative sacrifice. We can now worship without the mess or smell.

SD

51,665 posted on 05/06/2003 7:40:20 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: malakhi
So we can see that it is not the sacrifice itself that God desires, but rather what it is supposed to represent. Sacrifice without repentance is meaningless, and in fact, an "abomination". However, sacrifice can be a symbol of true repentance.

The question is, what sort of sacrifice does God truly desire, and why would He have established something different? Maimonides, the great Jewish philosopher and theologian, considered this question. In viewing the history of sacrifice in the scripture, he came to the conclusion that God was weaning Israel away from animal sacrifice. The Law regarding sacrifice grew progressively more restrictive. First, they could be offered anywhere, then later only in Jerusalem at the temple. Maimonides believed that God accepted the sacrifices as a concession to the wishes of the Israelites to offer sacrifices to Him as neighboring tribes did to their gods. (Remember Jesus saying that Moses permitted divorce "for your hardness of heart"? This is similar). As time passed, God revealed to Israel what He really desired.


Except that it is simply not supported by Old Testament scripture that God did not, on His own initiative, institute the sacrifices He commanded of Israel. There is nothing recorded in scripture to even suggest that God instituted such sacrifices at the behest of the Israelites (as He did when they wanted a king).

It appears to me, that, from the Genesis, ... death is demanded by God as a penalty for sin.
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Leviticus 22:9 They shall therefore keep mine ordinance, lest they bear sin for it, and die therefore, if they profane it: I the LORD do sanctify them.

Numbers 18:22 Neither must the children of Israel henceforth come nigh the tabernacle of the congregation, lest they bear sin, and die.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
You can think of God's judgement of death for sinners as the logical outcome for a errant creation.

Accordingly, the Old Testament sacrificial system appears to allow God to show mercy to man (an errant creation), while simultaneously demonstrating to man the utter seriousness of sin.

So, it is not the sacrifice itself that God desires, but the lesson that the sacrifice teaches. FWIW, such a lesson would be lost on an unrepentent people who were just going through the motions.

So, yes, one can think of the sacrifices as a means to an end (or ends). For the believer, understanding that death is the penalty for sin should motivate that believer to cleanse his/her life as much as possible from sin.

So, indeed, ... God would have no pleasure in the sacrifice (or death) of (even) the wicked. For that is not the purpose for which He created man, but rather ... to live in fellowship with Him forever.

So, yes ... God desires repentent hearts, rather than sacrifices, but it may take sacrifices to motivate those hearts to repent.

That it took the death of JESUS to atone for our sin demonstrates to us, both the magnitude of our sin (by how far we have missed the mark) and should motivate us to do all we can to allow God to conform us back into His image.

51,815 posted on 05/06/2003 12:00:10 PM PDT by Quester
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