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To: malakhi; SoothingDave; RobbyS; al_c; IMRight; tHe AnTiLiB; JHavard; newgeezer; ...
Your example, from De Montfort ofcourse.

27. Since grace enhances our human nature and glory adds a still greater perfection to grace, it is certain that our Lord remains in heaven just as much the Son of Mary as he was on earth. Consequently he has retained the submissiveness and obedience of the most perfect of all children towards the best of all mothers. We must take care, however, not to consider this dependence as an abasement or imperfection in Jesus Christ. For Mary, infinitely inferior to her Son, who is God, does not command him in the same way as an earthly mother would command her child who is beneath her. Since she is completely transformed in God by that grace and glory which transforms all the saints in him, she does not ask or wish or do anything which is contrary to the eternal and changeless will of God. When therefore we read in the writings of Saint Bernard, Saint Bernardine, Saint Bonaventure, and others that all in heaven and on earth, even God himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin, they mean that the authority which God was pleased to give her is so great that she seems to have the same power as God. Her prayers and requests are so powerful with him that he accepts them as commands in the sense that he never resists his dear mother's prayer because it is always humble and conformed to his will. Moses by the power of his prayer curbed God's anger against the Israelites so effectively that the infinitely great and merciful Lord was unable to withstand him and asked Moses to let him be angry and punish that rebellious people. How much greater, then, will be the prayer of the humble Virgin Mary, worthy Mother of God, which is more powerful with the King of heaven than the prayers and intercession of all the angels and saints in heaven and on earth.

Notice the imediate retraction of some of the impact then right back to the adulation.

49,489 posted on 04/29/2003 11:36:53 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrissssstian)
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To: biblewonk
Demon tfort isn't Official RC dogma. ;-)
49,491 posted on 04/29/2003 11:42:29 AM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible)
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To: biblewonk
Notice the imediate retraction of some of the impact then right back to the adulation.

You mean this:

We must take care, however, not to consider this dependence as an abasement or imperfection in Jesus Christ. For Mary, infinitely inferior to her Son, who is God, does not command him in the same way as an earthly mother would command her child who is beneath her.

Yours is a cynical reading. If, instead, you read it as it was intended, you would have nothing to complain about.

Consider it an "overriding theme" to the work.

SD

49,493 posted on 04/29/2003 11:45:17 AM PDT by SoothingDave (It might behoove me to be heaved)
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To: biblewonk
I don't use such language myself, nor am I required to. If you want to know where Mary figures in the Church, just reflect on the fact that in the mass,in the Holy Liturgy, Mary is mentioned only twice and in passing. Private devotions to the Virgin can be excessive, and to some Catholics devotions to particular visions, such as Fatima, can make up a the greater part of their prayer life. On the other hand, consider the contents of an old prayer book I have, copyright 1942. Of 300 pages of prayers, about twenty are to Our Lady and that includes three hymns. To give you an ida of the flavor of those prayers, consider this moring prayer:

An act of adoration

O great God, the Sovereign Lord of heaven and earth, O prostrate myself before Thee. With all the Angels and Saints, I adore Thee. I acknowledge The to be my Creator and Sovereign Lord, my first beginning and last end. I render to Thee the homage of my being and life. I submit myself to Thy holy will; and I devote myself to Thy divine service, this day and forever. I wish and purpose to gain today all the indulgences which it is possible for me to gain.

I trust you don't find anything especially offensive about this, except perhaps the use of the word "indulgences," which in this case however does not have the meaning you recognize but the broader meaning of "favors granted."

49,581 posted on 04/29/2003 1:33:36 PM PDT by RobbyS
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