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To: AlguyA; biblewonk
On the flip side we have newgeezer's, ""Belief"? I'd be shocked if it's the subject of any doctrinal statements either way." My heart sinks at such unconcern. Christ's humanity(along with His divinity) would seem to me to be the central point of the entire Gospel. I can't think of an issue more important.

Unconcern? Who's unconcerned? Whose requirement is it that Jesus be biologically descended from Mary? Can someone please answer that? You and SD and the rest of the RCC are the ones who are dogmatic about it. So, the ball's in your court. Tell me why God could not have had Mary conceive Jesus -- The Last Adam -- in her womb from God's sperm and egg.

I'm willing to listen and learn. Really.

49,077 posted on 04/28/2003 11:34:05 AM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible)
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To: newgeezer
Unconcern? Who's unconcerned? Whose requirement is it that Jesus be biologically descended from Mary? Can someone please answer that? You and SD and the rest of the RCC are the ones who are dogmatic about it. So, the ball's in your court. Tell me why God could not have had Mary conceive Jesus -- The Last Adam -- in her womb from God's sperm and egg.

I'm willing to listen and learn. Really.

Because if it isn't Mary's egg then she is much less important in the RC gospel. Ironic that this whole Easter thing is about egg's isn't it. Could it be.......hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

49,081 posted on 04/28/2003 11:40:47 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrissssstian)
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To: newgeezer
Tell me why God could not have had Mary conceive Jesus -- The Last Adam -- in her womb from God's sperm and egg. I'm willing to listen and learn. Really.

I've only brought up the objection about 10 times in the last week. Nonetheless, I welcome the opportunity to quit the sniping and actually engage the idea.

So. The position is put forth that Jesus is both fully man and fully God. As such He bridges the gap between man and God that was created when Adam and Eve sinned and were thrown out of Eden. This broke their complete fellowship with God.

All of the men since Adam and Eve have likewise lacked this complete fellowship with God.

Christ, by becoming man and offering himself as the Perfect Sacrifice on the Cross, unites man and God. This makes mankind able, through Jesus, to become holy and perfect in the eyes of God.

If Jesus were just God, His Crucifixion would be an illusion. It would have nothing to do with us, since He was not a man.

If Jesus was just man, He could not offer the Infinite Sacrifice required to satisfy God's justice. the gap could not be bridged.

So Jesus has to be man and God.

Now, since man, descended from Adam, is broken, it is we who need to be lifted up. Christ unites His humanity to His divinity on the Cross to make humanity the recipient of His Salvation.

If Jesus was, instead, some newly created "man" not related to Adam, there would be several difficulties.

First of all, the "mankind" who suffered on the Cross would have had no reason to make atonement. The humanity of Jesus substituted collectively for all of our humanity and its sin. If Jesus was not truly a man like us, then there would be no justice in hanging him from a tree.

It would be like God took Adam, before the fall, and Crucified him.

Secondly, if we are not related to Jesus, how can we benefit from His Actions? He took "humanity" up with Him and received God's favor. But this was not the broken, fallen humanity, but some other humanity that was not in need of redemption.

The bottom line is that if Jesus did not take on our actual humanity, then He did not redeem it.

SD

49,087 posted on 04/28/2003 11:48:42 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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