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To: Havoc
There is no such thing as pre-emptive salvation. God cannot circumvent my free will or yours in making our own choices. It is not allowed - not now and not then.

Thus sayeth Havoc. You're a laugh riot. Let's let God decide what He can do, OK? LOL

Listen up, God did not violate Mary's Free Will. She could have chosen not to cooperate with God, that is why we praise her for her fiat. If she was a slave, then we would not consider her any more than that.

Do try to stay consistent. LOL

If he does it for one, he must do it for all else he is unjust.

LOL. So the clay says to the potter. You should go talk to the Calvinists. Learn them a thing or two about how God plays fair. LOL

When exactly is it that you presume she got forgiven and never sinned again? Hmm? After Christ died? Until he passed and rose again, the sacrifice was not complete.

No, dear friend, like I said, at Mary's conception she was saved. She never sinned at all. Please try to learn a thing or two about the Catholic faith sometime before you die. You might be surprised. Put down the comic books.

As for "the sacrifice not being complete" you again, as I jsut told you, constrain God in the time He created. Try to imagine a God bigger than time, who is time's master and not time's servant. Such a little god you have. Has to sit around and wait.

Do you intend to tell us Mary was sin free and therefore offered a turtle dove for her sins?

She offered a turtle dove in obedience ot the Law. Duh. What is the "sin" you think she had resulting from childbirth?

Care to tell us why God can somehow make Mary Sin free from birth to death and can't just do it for all of us by caveat?

Who said He couldn't? Talk about tying God's hands. LOL

God chooses to save Mary in this special way. God has not chosen to save you in that manner. Deal with it.

SD

47,768 posted on 04/21/2003 12:00:58 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: All
Hint:

"Immaculate Conception"

...refers to the event where Mary was conceived in the womb without original sin. The Roman Catholic terminology does not refer to Jesus conceived in her womb, as is commonly thought by "casual" Christians.

I'll never forget the incredulity I felt when first exposed to this heresy.

47,794 posted on 04/21/2003 12:25:56 PM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible)
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To: SoothingDave
No, dear friend, like I said, at Mary's conception she was saved. She never sinned at all. Please try to learn a thing or two about the Catholic faith sometime before you die. You might be surprised. Put down the comic books.

Impossible. One has to be flesh and have some clue to what they are agreeing in order to choose a master. It's as though you're asking a baby whether he wants a bicycle or a Harley Davidson for his sixteenth birthday while the kid is dividing into it's second cell. There is no point of reference. There is no end to what you will try to reason out that both violates God's law and is not only not in scripture;but, anti-scriptural. And I am keeping up. You're trying to sell us on the notion that God can willy nilly forgive sin and remove a servant from their master with no repercussion. You are clueless. I will ask again. If God did it for Mary, why did we need Jesus. Why couldn't he have just done that for everyone instead of running the coy game.

Who said He couldn't? Talk about tying God's hands. LOL

Scripture - God's own testimony, ties God's hands. You act like life is just one big free-for-all and that there are no bounds for anyone or anything. Like the universe can just turn on it's head because you can reason it so. It's no wonder. You pick and choose the Apostles' statements and contest anything you don't like - even to the extent of contesting Christ himself. Why should we imagine you doing anything else. You have all the traits of the enemy and attempt to pass yourself off as righteous. Anything goes.. Not with the Lord God of Hosts. There are defined limits and requirements to salvation. And he says any attempt to skate in around it is robbery and will fail. That's not limiting God to time, that's you playing philosophy games and trying to reason out what seams right to you. Hope you like high heat.

47,837 posted on 04/21/2003 1:39:28 PM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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To: SoothingDave; Havoc
Listen up, God did not violate Mary's Free Will. She could have chosen not to cooperate with God, that is why we praise her for her fiat. If she was a slave, then we would not consider her any more than that.

Listen up, would God have chosen Mary if he knew, and you can be certain he knew, she'd refuse?

Why do you suppose Jesus went to the trouble of nipping the "Cult of Mary" in the bud?

47,875 posted on 04/21/2003 2:15:55 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE ((I am a cult of one! UNITARJEWMIAN))
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