The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[SoothingDave]

As I'd stated, I'm talking about "whole life", not term life.

Well, none of us were. We were talking term.

SD

[JohnnyM]

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, "

Ok then, based on your interpretation then, once you have been saved and then sin willfully you have lost your birthright and can be never saved again, correct? You are damned forever.

Also, what are your thoughts on being a new creation. Once you sin, you revert back to your old creation (which has died on the cross), and you then must be born again again??

JM

[Quester]

This appears to say that, ... if we lose it (i.e. fall away), we cannot get it back.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

[JohnnyM]

also, when your child disobeys you wilfully, does he cease being your son??? Once we have been born again we become sons of God. So if we then sin, do we cease being a child of God? I firmly believe that parenthood is type of God's relationship with His children.

JM

[OLD REGGIE]

The purchase of the policy is not simply for that 20 year period, that is the period of purchase only. The policy is purchased to provide benefits to those left behind at death. The policy stays in place until death. You are supposing that the purchaser is only buying insurance for the 20 year period, which is a fallacy. That 20 year period is the purchase time, like purchasing a car over 5 years.

It is obvious you are speaking of a 20 Payment Life Policy. This is not what has been discussed.

malakhi clearly was speaking of a 20 Year Term Policy.

Apples and oranges.

[SoothingDave]

This appears to say that, ... if we lose it (i.e. fall away), we cannot get it back.

It does indeed appear to say that. So if we are "sure" that we have the real thing we must take great care not to mess it up.

SD

[SoothingDave]

What if I find out little Timmy wasn't really mine at all?

SD

[ventana]

I am sure a logician would have a term for this line of reasoning. I am at a loss why you seem to hold me responsible for Scripture and suggest you take it up with management.

[OLD REGGIE]

Search for a Talmud in Baghdad

Potentially very exciting.

[ventana]

Or, more charitably, how might you interpret this scripture?

[JohnnyM]

well, that is a different issue entirely. We are speaking of those who are children.

JM

[JohnnyM]

I will tell you how I interpret it once I see where you stand. Is your take on that Scripture that once you lose salvation that you can no longer get it back as Questor pointed it.

JM

[OLD REGGIE]

What am I missing? You don't think this is a reference to Christ? Not evidence that He was around when the Father wrote Scripture (whatever the heck THAT is supposed to mean)?

You missed the nutty response by Anti. This negated the entire series of responses.

[SoothingDave]

well, that is a different issue entirely. We are speaking of those who are children.

Well, if you check my exchange with drstevej above, you would see that we already hashed this out.

I have no doubt that those God "saves" or makes "His children" will remain that way. My problem, now and always, is identifying those with yourself. We should strive to make that so, but only by persevering can we know it to be so.

We are not saved because one day we decided to accept God. We are saved because God works through us for a lifetime in which we persevere.

SD

[ventana]

But I asked you first! Them's the rules Bub :-)

[JohnnyM]

Post 52383: Me:
"Ok then, based on your interpretation then, once you have been saved and then sin willfully you have lost your birthright and can be never saved again, correct?"

Post 52,391: You:
"Or, more charitably, how might you interpret this scripture?"

JM

[JohnnyM]

"I have no doubt that those God "saves" or makes "His children" will remain that way."

Looks like you believe OSAS.

JM

[ventana]

and then you answered.....

[SoothingDave]

Looks like you believe OSAS.

Except for the major part where y'all run around telling everyone that you know for certain you are in the elect.

That we don't know until we persevere.

Plus, I wouldn't term it "once saved, always saved" I would say "once on the road to salvation, salvation will be the destination."

Saying "once saved" indicates that the salvation of the person is a one time thing, which it is not.

SD