The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[SoothingDave]

At least have the decency to ping me when you talk about me.

Of course, from one who was earlier making fun of a typo, decency is a lot to expect.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

I'm still waiting for a single solid piece of evidence that irrefuteably shows Peter was ever in Rome. And 2 years or more later, it still hasn't been produced. I didn't ask for proof of how long he was their or who he ministered to or anything like that - just a single piece of irrefutable evidence that he'd been there. A single bit of solid archeological fact - not conjecture. If Peter were there for 25 years, there would at a minimum have to be some legal record of it - lord knows there is for Paul - though after all this time I'd have to go hunting the specifics again that I referenced way back when.

How can you be so insistent Peter was never in Rome? His bones have been found several times in Rome and in different locations in Rome. Isn't that enough proof for you?

The most precious of Peter's bones found in the Graffiti Wall are the 29 fragments of the Apostle's skull. Note: the 29 pieces of Peter's skull found in the Grafitti Wall are not to be confused with Peter's other skull, which is stored in the Cathedral of St. John Lateran. The Graffiti Wall bones of Peter and Peter's other skull are not the only true relics of the "Prince of the Apostles" found in and around the Vatican. In a page one article in the August 22, 1949 edition of the New York Times, Camille Cianfarra revealed that Vatican archeologists had discovered another of Peter's skeletons in the Red Wall, yards away from the place where the plastic boxes of Peter's bones are worshipped today. Pope Pius XII is reported to have kept these bones in his private apartment for 14 years, during which time he had his personal physician, Dr. Galeazzi-Lisi, and several medical experts, examine them. The consensus of the authorities was that the bones were those of a powerfully built male who died in the seventh decade of his life. That just had to be Peter, didn't it?

Peter's Bones

(Smirk).

[SoothingDave]

Good morning Beast, is that the Roast Beast or just the plain Beast? :)

Marinated in Burgundy and Garlic and slow roasted over an open fire of heretics. ;-)

SD

[ksen]

It is simply a recognition that Mary played a crucial role in bringing Jesus to the earth. And since she did, she is a participant in the salvation of each person that Jesus saves.

You say she "is a participant in the salvation of each person that Jesus saves." How, exactly, does she participate in the salvation of each person?

[IMRight]

You say she "is a participant in the salvation of each person that Jesus saves." How, exactly, does she participate in the salvation of each person?

Very very carefully.

[SoothingDave]

You say she "is a participant in the salvation of each person that Jesus saves." How, exactly, does she participate in the salvation of each person?

Remember Christmas?

SD

[ventana]

This math?

Teaching Math in 1950:
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100.
His production cost is 4/5 of the price.
What is his profit?

Teaching Math in 1960:
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80.
What is his profit?

Teaching Math in 1970:
A logger exchanges a set "L" of lumber for a set "M" of money. The cardinality of set "M" is 100. Each element is worth one dollar. Make 100 dots representing the elements of the set "M". The set "C", the cost of production, contains 20 fewer points than set "M." Represent the set "C" as a subset of set "M" and answer the following question:
What is the cardinality of the set "P" for profits?

Teaching Math in 1980:
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100.
Her cost of production is $80 and her profit is $20. Your assignment:
Underline the number 20.

Teaching Math in 1990:
By cutting down beautiful forest trees, the logger makes $20.
What do you think of this way of making a living?
Topic for class participation after answering the question:
How did the forest birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down the trees?
There are no wrong answers.

Teaching Math in 1996:
By laying off 40% of its loggers, a company improves its stock price from $80 to $100. How much capital gain per share does the CEO make by exercising his stock options at $80? Assume capital gains are no longer taxed, because this encourages investment.

Teaching Math in 1997:
A company out-sources all of its loggers. The firm saves on benefits, and when demand for its product is down, the logging work force can easily be cut back. The average logger employed by the company earned $50,000, had three weeks vacation, a nice retirement plan and medical insurance. The contracted logger charges $50 an hour. Was outsourcing a good move?

Teaching Math in 1998:
A laid-off logger with four kids at home and a ridiculous alimony from his first failed marriage comes into the logging-company corporate offices and goes postal, mowing down 16 executives and a couple of secretaries, and gets lucky when he nails a politician on the premises collecting his kickback. Was outsourcing the loggers a good move for the company?

Teaching Math in 1999:
A laid-off logger serving time in Folsom for blowing away several people is being trained as a COBOL programmer in order to work on Y2K projects. What is the probability that the automatic cell doors will open on their own as of 00.00:01, 01/01/00?

[IMRight]

We had a long sermon a year or so ago about how "without Esther, there is no Easter". That she played a critical role in salvation history and was thus a participant in your salvation.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Blow it out your @ss Reggie.

BigMack

[Quester]

Secondly, Jesus did indeed let His mother interfere with His ministry. At her insistence, He did His first miracle at Cana.

I don't know that I would call this interference. Certainly it didn't interfere with His ministry (He was simply attending a wedding).

What do you mean by "preference?" Could he reserve the front pew for her? Maybe point her out during the sermon? Come out and kiss her during the sing of peace? Give her communion personally?

Apparently JESUS did not feel inclined to so indulge.

You see, we tend to believe that Jesus would have informed His Mother, that she would have understood what was to happen.

JESUS also informed His disciples. They also, did not understand.

[Segale2001]

Wow, is this like the Catholic formu or what here. Everyone is trying to give such credit to people asside from Christ. Yet it is only Christ can grant salvation. Why are we considering others in Salvation?

[ksen]

Here is what you said: It is simply a recognition that Mary played a crucial role in bringing Jesus to the earth. And since she did, she is a participant in the salvation of each person that Jesus saves.

Sounds like you were saying since Mary participated in the Incarnation she is now allowed to participate in the salvation of each person. IOW, there was the Incarnation help, and now there is something more.

Was I reading you right?

[OLD REGGIE]

So, I believe that what we see in the Bible regarding Mary is a balanced position. Certainly she was blessed and was a great blessing to every one of us. But, we want to see her as she truly was/is, not lesser, nor greater, for God is a God of truth, and, as His children, we should desire His truth.

Outstanding!

[IMRight]

Blow it out your @ss Reggie.

Ahhh. A cheater and a poor loser?

[SoothingDave]

I don't know that I would call this interference. Certainly it didn't interfere with His ministry (He was simply attending a wedding).

Read it again. Jesus says that His time had not come yet. She ignores Him and tells the servants to do what He tells them. He was reluctant to start His ministry. She made Him begin with His first public miracle.

Sounds like interference to me.

SD

[IMRight]

Wow, is this like the Catholic formu or what here. Everyone is trying to give such credit to people asside from Christ. Yet it is only Christ can grant salvation. Why are we considering others in Salvation?

Actually, it was a Independant Fundamentalist preacher. Decisedly NOT a Catholic. But thanks for playing.

You new here? Welcome!

[SoothingDave]

Sounds like you were saying since Mary participated in the Incarnation she is now allowed to participate in the salvation of each person. IOW, there was the Incarnation help, and now there is something more.

That "something more" is merely the effects of the Incarnation rippling through time. It's not a questino of her being "allowed" to participate in the Salvation of each person. She already has, by giving the world her Son.

If you are planning on being saved because of Jesus, then Mary had something do to with that. Including giving of her very flesh for God to become Incarnate.

SD

[Segale2001]

I am new to the thread surfing.

[malakhi]

ooohh...low blow. Talk about kicking a team when it's down. :-)

I just feel bad for Alan Trammell. I'd like to think that he can turn things around. But unless ownership is willing to put money into payroll and refurbishing the farm system, I don't see anything changing. A shame, too, because Detroit should not be a "small market" team.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Blow it out your @ss you snotty little man.

BigMack