Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
It is likely the the pregnancy sped up the marital plans.
Think about it yourself.
She's a young girl who is espoused to be married at some non-specified time in the future ... she has never been intimate with a man ... and, ... an angel pops in and says ...
Guess what ? You're going to have a baby !
What would you have said ?
Just repeat over and over "I know not a man", "I know not a man", "I know not a man" and then blow the dust of the Bible and look up Matthew 1:24 & 25.
And if they are, so what? He is the only One that I'm concerned with, I have no business with them
You have no business with them? Is that your position?
If He is the only One you are concerned with, then you must not ever pray with or for anyone else, right? Never ask another to pray for you, right?
But you already said that you do this. So He is not the only One you are concerned with.
So why do you think that the Body of Christ is divided in two?
SD
Lately, I wish we could play the Brewers every day. :-)
The mating call of the Pirates fan!
SD
I didn't have a "two day" theory.
If it wasn't a theory it was a heck of an imbellishment. In light of the scripture I posted it was at least 3 months.
Who was Kurt Cobain?
Lead singer and guitar player for the 90s Seattle "grunge" rock band Nirvana. Along with Pearl Jam, Nirvana burst upon the scene and created a stampede to Seattle to sign up this new "sound" that blew away the stale "hair bands" of the 80s with a return to punk-like aggressiveness coupled with songs of angst and woe.
As you have gathered, his heroin addiction (quite common in the Seattle scene as well) contributed to his eventual suicide at the peak of his popularity.
SD
As it is the angel gives no indication of timeframe.
SD
This is good, your who-sd's-most-pissed-at o'meter is trending upwards.
I give no credibility to that meter. It was put together by Al_c. :-)
Ahh. A little light blasphemy in the morning for debating points I see? I sooo missed this common NC debating tactic.
making Mary the mother of evil
Actually, that would make Mary evil (or at least married to it).But why split hairs.
Of course He did become sin for us (2 Cor....4 or 5?), so the analogy is not completely false (though I suspect you meant it as an example of absurdity without realizing it wasn't far off). And your verses are pretty far off, so your assumptions don't fit the equation. Man is not "evil" in the same way that the church is the body of Christ. And Christ is the "Son of man" in a much more nebulous way than He was the son of Mary.
Will you explain what you mean by co-redeemer?
Are you trying to be a trouble-maker? ;-)
The first thing to recognize is that "co" does not imply an equality. We could co-write a book and you could do 99 percent of the work. The co-pilot on a plane doesn't do much of anything unless he is needed. A co-signer on a loan does nto pay half the loan.
OK? So forget about that idea.
It is simply a recognition that Mary played a crucial role in bringing Jesus to the earth. And since she did, she is a participant in the salvation of each person that Jesus saves.
That's all.
Now, we get into difficulty with certain Non-Catholic doctrines that teach that man is entirely passive in his own salvation. That God does absolutely everything and man does nothing towards his salvation. If you believe this, then the idea of saying any person had a part in another's salvation is anathema.
But if you recognize that someoneled you to Christ, helped you to understand, etc. and that person can rightly be said to have "participated" in your salvation. Of course, that person is only doing such things in union with Christ becuae of their own salvation, but the point remains. People still have a will.
So many people could be said to have followed Christ to the point where it led up to the circumstances that led to yoru salvation. All of these have "participated" in your salvation.
First among these, for all people, is Mary, who said yes to God and brought forth her Son, the Savior.
SD
SD
You're swallowing camels. (Matthew 1:24-25)
I thin he was referring to your place on the meter. I guess I'll hafta update it. ;o)
You think it's a character flaw of the entire class? :-)
I did notice that. I figure a Catholic could have won by having Dave post "Mary IS God!" once or twice. The NC's would be so busy typing up sputtering two page tretises that a RC could have waltzed in on 49,999 saying "does anyone want to take this? I'll wait." and taken 50k five full minutes later unchallenged (instead of ~100 posts in 60 seconds). Must have given the servers fits!
New math?
Second, I never said or even intimated that JESUS did not feel a normal affection for His mother. However, it does appear that He takes pains to not allow that relationship to interfere in His ministry.
Well, it wasn't you, but another NC here did indeed point out that, according to Scripture, we have no evidence of affectionate communication from Jesus to his mother.
What is one supposed to make of that?
Secondly, Jesus did indeed let His mother interfere with His ministry. At her insistence, He did His first miracle at Cana.
It would be akin to a priest officiating in a Catholic service where his mother was in attendance. Would it be proper for him to show preference to his mother in such a public service ?
What do you mean by "preference?" Could he reserve the front pew for her? Maybe point her out during the sermon? Come out and kiss her during the sing of peace? Give her communion personally?
Yep. To all those things. Being a priest doesn't mean you have to give up your Mama.
I'm sure that in their more private moments together, JESUS and His mother shared in a way that was more like mother and son. However, even then, the relationship must have been tinged with the understanding by Mary that her son was someone greater than she, and that He had a singular mission to accomplish, a mission which must have filled her heart with a growing dread (in regard to the enemies He was making) as it progressed day by day.
Certainly Mary was blessed to be the mother of JESUS, but like many great blessings from God ... with them comes great responsibility. Early in JESUS' life, Mary was warned that a sword would also pierce her heart ... such a knowledge in regards to one's child would be difficult to bear, but Mary bore it and bore it well.
Preach on!
She never got in the way of His ministry ... she was with Him from the beginning to the end. She stood by bravely as He suffered and died on the cross, something I'm sure that she, as a mother, couldn't possibly have understood.
You're starting to drift.
I cannot imagine her emotions as it began to sink in that He may have raised Himself from the dead. Certainly she had seen Lazarus rise, but who could she turn to for such a miracle ? I'm certain that even this was difficult for her ... she didn't dare to hope that He lived. When she saw Him, ... her heart must have stopped. It was true after all ... all that was prophesied was true ... her son was also ... her God. Finally she watched as He ascended in the clouds to His Father, ... and she returned with the other disciples to Jerusalem to live for Him.
You see, we tend to believe that Jesus would have informed His Mother, that she would have understood what was to happen.
Such was the case where something which was truly used by God to bless His people, ultimately became a snare and a cause for disobedience on the part of His people. We do well to take care to not allow the same to happen in the case of Mary, the mother of our Lord.
So, I believe that what we see in the Bible regarding Mary is a balanced position. Certainly she was blessed and was a great blessing to every one of us. But, we want to see her as she truly was/is, not lesser, nor greater, for God is a God of truth, and, as His children, we should desire His truth.
We all agee, or course. The only question is what this "balance" is.
SD
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