The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[al_c]

... only if Roller Derby isn't on.

[Mr. Lucky]

But just as that relationship was unique, isn't Mary's blessedness similarly unique?

[Quester]

Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Sorry, but that doesn't even relate. Unless you are arguing that Jesus had to love God more than he loved His mother. Which isn't even in dispute.

What meaning has this?

Simply that ... in the economy of God, ... spiritual relationships trump physical relationships.

[biblewonk]

Of course, making "your own" of a text without consulting its caretaker is kinda you guys's schtick.

The fact that words actually mean things allows us to read a document and take it at face value instead of going to some decoder ring(pope/church) that redefines everything that has just been said. It's not like the bible was written by Bill Clinton.

[Mr. Lucky]

Why is it that synchronized swimming made it into the Olympics, but roller derby didn't? One of the great shames of the 20th Century (outside of the last eight years of American politics).

[SoothingDave]

I am quite sure that all generations have called Mary blessed. But this is simply the adulation of man, as opposed to the evaluation of God.

Huh? So the Bible, when saying that all generations will call her blessed, is saying that many many people will be mistaken?

Mary was blessed by God, as we all have the opportunity to be ... in that she had/has relationship with God, and the blessings which flow from that relationship.

Of course she had a relationship with God. In terms of obedience and everything she had a model relationship with God.

You do have a distinction, but I'm not sure you are looking at it the right way. Certainly, Mary was not blessed because she was Jesus' mother, but she was blessed to be Jesus' mother.

We all have an opportunity to be blessed to have a relationship with God, for sure. But none of us will ever have the mother/Son relationship she had.

That never goes away.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Simply that ... in the economy of God, ... spiritual relationships trump physical relationships.

Sure. But, tell me. Who do you think has a more close spiritual relationship with God?

SD

[SoothingDave]

The fact that words actually mean things allows us to read a document and take it at face value instead of going to some decoder ring(pope/church) that redefines everything that has just been said.

LOL. If only you did take it at face value. Instead you read your own bises into it, taking the overriding theme the author carefully contructs as a lens to understand the text, and discarding it because of your own prejudices against Catholics.

That's not taking the text at face value at all. That's deciding someone is saying something, no matter what he says, and discarding his attempt to add context as "disclaimer" that are not genuine.

No wonder you are so confused, if you think that is taking a text at face value.

SD

[Quester]

... JESUS elevates all of His followers to the same level as His mother.

Yes, if they do the will of the Father. Let's not put the cart before the horse. We know Mary did, and as such she is worthy of some honor.

When we know you have, then you will also be on the same plane.

Fortunately, you will not need to know. That God knows is more than enough.

But you will never, ever, be His mother. You will not fill her role.

You are quite right. I would not be the right one for that role (in more ways than one).

But, have no doubt, I do have a role to fill, as do you ... as do all Christians.

Fortunately my role is appropriate to me. God's highest desire for me is that I fulfill my role.

[JHavard]

Matthew 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

But do you think at the time Jesus said this, He had any idea His mom would become more popular in the RC Church then He would be?

If he had know, would He have been a little more careful how He referred to her? :-)

JH

[SoothingDave]

But do you think at the time Jesus said this, He had any idea His mom would become more popular in the RC Church then He would be?

She's not. Don't say things you can't back up. We only discuss her here endlessly cause it is a point of contention.

To the average Catholic there is hardly a thought given.

SD

[newgeezer]

Bingo.

(Again.)

:-)

[biblewonk]

28. Mary has authority over the angels and the blessed in heaven. As a reward for her great humility, God gave her the power and the mission of assigning to saints the thrones made vacant by the apostate angels who fell away through pride. Such is the will of almighty God who exalts the humble, that the powers of heaven, earth and hell, willingly or unwillingly, must obey the commands of the humble Virgin Mary. For God has made her queen of heaven and earth, leader of his armies, keeper of his treasures, dispenser of his graces, worker of his wonders, restorer of the human race, mediatrix on behalf of men, destroyer of his enemies, and faithful associate in his great works and triumphs.

I take this at face value. DEMONtfort is making statements that are pure fiction making him a liar and a false teacher.

[newgeezer]

To the average Catholic there is hardly a thought given.

No doubt.

[Quester]

But just as that relationship was unique, isn't Mary's blessedness similarly unique?

All of God's children have a unique relationship with God (by virtue of their own uniqueness), and, therefore, a unique blessedness which flows out of that relationship.

Just as all of your children have a unique relationship with you (by virtue of their own uniqueness), and, therefore, a unique blessedness which flows out of that relationship.

[SoothingDave]

Keep studying. Maybe someday you'll get it.

(Hint: It's not about taking each paragraph as a unique, unrelated thought. Of coruse, since that is how you deal with other texts, I realize this is a hard habit to break.)

SD

[SoothingDave]

All of God's children have a unique relationship with God (by virtue of their own uniqueness), and, therefore, a unique blessedness which flows out of that relationship. Just as all of your children have a unique relationship with you (by virtue of their own uniqueness), and, therefore, a unique blessedness which flows out of that relationship.

Yes. We agree. So why the fuss when we explore Mary's role?

SD

[malakhi]

It could, except for the fact that I couldn't care less if all of hockeydom went the way of the USFL.

Hey, now we have a point of agreement! ;o)

[malakhi]

Back to you, al.