Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
It could, except for the fact that I couldn't care less if all of hockeydom went the way of the USFL.
So typical. Close and yet so far. I guess you meant that "snow in April" thing to be a bad thing. ;-)
SD
Thank you. I'm impressed. I couln't have given you that much detail if you asked me tommorrow morning. :-)
Not at all. I enjoy soccer infinitely less than I enjoy hockey. :-)
How can you not like hockey? Its much better than the NBA.
I agree. However, it wasn't always the case. There once was a time when I would watch the NBA playoffs.
Are there really verses of Scripture which some believe support a repudiation by Jesus of His mother?
I would say that there is scripture which appears to indicate that JESUS placed more significance on spiritual relationship with God, as opposed to Mary's physical relationship with Him.
Sort of along the lines of ...
God is not a respecter of persons.
(2 Chronicles 19:7, Acts 10:34, Romans 2:11, Ephesians 6:9, Colossians 3:25, I Peter 1:17)Luke 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed [is] the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Matthew 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Matthew 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Matthew 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
#1, You don't think Mary had a "Spiritual" relationship with her Son?
#2, You think Motherhood is a "physical relationship" only?
SD
Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
If you take this in the literal fashion you seem to want to do, then you basically have introduced Jesus teaching a contradiction to Scripture.
Earlier in Luke we hear that "all generations will call her blessed." Then, according to your interpetation, Jesus contradicts that and says "Nah, forget her, blessed are the believers instead"
So how do you explain this contradiction. JEsus is commanding us here (According to you) not to consider his mother blessed, in contradiction to earlier Scripture.
SD
I guess my obscure "Trees" reference didn't hit home.
Why would anyone view this as an opportunity to bring Mary down to our level, rather than an opportunity to be lifted up to her level?
Mary is blessed and she played a special role and so can I! That is the message.
SD
Sorry, but that doesn't even relate. Unless you are arguing that Jesus had to love God more than he loved His mother. Which isn't even in dispute.
What meaning has this?
SD
#1, You don't think Mary had a "Spiritual" relationship with her Son?
No doubt but that she did, but in these passages ...Luke 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed [is] the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.... JESUS elevates all of His followers to the same level as His mother.
Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Matthew 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Matthew 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Matthew 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
#2, You think Motherhood is a "physical relationship" only?
In some cases, ... yes.
Not in Mary's, particularly, ... but in some.
Yes, if they do the will of the Father. Let's not put the cart before the horse. We know Mary did, and as such she is worthy of some honor.
When we know you have, then you will also be on the same plane.
But you will never, ever, be His mother. You will not fill her role.
SD
It's a minor undertown mentioned only as damage control.
LOL, I do hope you sensed the sarcasm in my comment. :o)
You are free to believe that. You're wrong, but you are free to believe that.
Of course, making "your own" of a text without consulting its caretaker is kinda you guys's schtick.
SD
Earlier in Luke we hear that "all generations will call her blessed." Then, according to your interpetation, Jesus contradicts that and says "Nah, forget her, blessed are the believers instead"
So how do you explain this contradiction. Jesus is commanding us here (According to you) not to consider his mother blessed, in contradiction to earlier Scripture.
I am quite sure that all generations have called Mary blessed.
But this is simply the adulation of man, as opposed to the evaluation of God.
Now, don't get me wrong ... Mary was blessed by God, as we all have the opportunity to be ... in that she had/has relationship with God, and the blessings which flow from that relationship.
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