The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[newgeezer]

49,100 is mine.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

49,100 is mine.

Mack? Did you see this? Newgeezer is warmin' up for 50,000 too. :-)

[SoothingDave]

Thanks (again) for your thoughts, your words and your specifications on the matter of what constitutes a man. Nonetheless, I remain willing to learn from His.

So you're not open to an exchange of thought. You take one, unrelated passage, and decide against all of historical Christianity that Jesus was not "born" of woman.

You can't explain what that means, and you refuse to engage questions about the implications for the Redpemption.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Yeah, and right after he posted his request, he declared biblewonk an "idiot."

Maybe Mary's really a rabbit, too. A big tall rabbit who gives away candy.

There's no end to some peoples' willingness to believe anything bad about those they hate.

In the name of God, of course.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

As opposed to your dictum that whatever the Church teaches is false.

Why don't you make a serious effort to tell the truth? If you did I might pay attention to what you say.

[biblewonk]

John the Baptist was born of a woman and Jesus was born of a woman. Why do you labor so hard to deny Scripture?

Parallel type of verse: "why do you call me good, there is none good but God".

[OLD REGGIE]

The last time I checked, Peter denied being a disciple of Jesus three times, right?

Why do you insist on displaying your ignorance? Do you know what "A Pope is infallible when teaching on matters of faith and morals" means? Do you recognize that Peter's denials don't meet that standard?

Jimmy Swaggert and Jimmy Baker were perfect in all ways, right? (Maybe you became a fundamentalist after that incident, if you need, which you do, more information, just ask)

Do you have a purpose behind this inanity?

Was Honorius preaching from the "Chair of Peter?"

Is the 6th Ecumenical Council recognized by the RCC?

Did this council find Honorius guilty of heresy?

Do you know what heresy is?

Do your homework before you go running off at the mouth.

[biblewonk]

Why do you labor so hard to deny Scripture?

BTW this iscoming from a Marian. There is definitely a lot of labor at damage control regarding the scriptures and Mary on the RC end.

[biblewonk]

No, it does not! It says He was made -- or, He came to pass -- of a woman.

Good catch, I keep forgetting your translational point on that matter.

[biblewonk]

The bottom line is that if Jesus did not take on our actual humanity, then He did not redeem it.

The bait. Once you take it then the switch. And from whom does He take that humanity, and only after She said it was ok.......

[drstevej]

You might want to check out Menno Simons (16th century Anabaptist) who held to the doctrine of the celestial flesh of Christ [i.e. Jesus brought his flesh from heaven and was born in but not of Mary].

http://ontruth.com/menno.html

Menno did not originate the doctrine but he did defend it in writing. Another holding similar views included Melchior Hoffman. I know of no 16th or 17th century Protestant that embraced his view. Many condemned it.

I have a copy of Menno's Complette Writings but have not read his treatise on Celestial Flesh in many years.

Menno would however argue that this issue has theological implications. A google search might provide research materials for you or biblewonk

[biblewonk]

You're an idiot.

ROTFLMAO!

[biblewonk]

Isn't this precious. The guy who actually is responsible for starting all the sniping wants us all to quit now.

Check #490, I busted a gut!

[OLD REGGIE]

(SD) There is no clash of Wills. No one is getting any graces from Mary that God didn't intend.

(Reg) So you agree Mary isn't necessary?

(SD) Does not follow. How do you define "necessary?"

No one is getting any graces from Mary any person that God didn't intend.

No person is necessary! Understand?

[biblewonk]

Don't play the victim.

You're learning fast!

[biblewonk]

That surely isn't against the Bible, is it? To test ideas and see if they contradict?

Yeah, regarding Mary, a bible is to the RCC as a rifle is to a French Soldier.

[biblewonk]

Yeah, and right after he posted his request, he declared biblewonk an "idiot."

I'm still laughing at that one. I think I am in a special place in Smoothingdave's heart.

[OLD REGGIE]

Reggie, you don't get it. It is not the words one is meditating on. Not at all.

Dave, you just don't get it. It isn't possible to meditate while going through a rapid fire verbal exercise.

[biblewonk]

Maybe Mary's really a rabbit, too. A big tall rabbit who gives away candy.

Get down man that rabbit's a killer!

What is it behind the rabbit?

[SoothingDave]

Interesting, thanks. I find this curious:

In Incarnation of Our Lord, Menno set forth his case for the celestial flesh of Jesus with two main arguments. First, he believed that Scripture proved the exclusive origin of a child from his father and applied that principle to Christ and His Heavenly Father. He wrote, "[H]uman procreation occurs by the marital intimacy of husband and wife. . . but from the male sperm. The new life has its origin not in the father, but comes from the father through the mother. .

It would seem that our understanding of chromosones would put this to rest. Life does not "originate" with the man "through the mother" but is from a combination of the two.

SD