Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
The Holy Spirit does distribute the spiritual gift of the discerning of spirits to whom He will.
What does that mean, exactly?
That the Holy Spirit selects some within the Church of JESUS Christ to receive the supernatural gift to discern whether another is being influenced and motivated by those spirits which follow God or by those spirits which follow Satan.
Such a gifting (as well as all other spiritual giftings) are given for the express benefit of the Church of JESUS Christ.
Where have I heard this before? I was just counting how many times the apostles call Mary the Mother of God and discuss her assumption and virginity and her being the mother of the church.
Ah, so the unbelievers got it and the Apostles were too ignorant to get it. I see, I get the picture. The spiritually blind understood while the spiritually accute were morons. Interesting given your prior stances on this. The incredulity is that they percieved wrongly that Jesus was talking about cannibalism - he was not. It had nothing to do with the imagery he was using to hide the truth in plain sight. The imagery was merely to convey that his body would be broken and his spirit released - he would have to die for them. And unless they believed on him as he had warned, they could not have eternal life. Communion is for those who have already believed and have been born again. It's a remembrance celebrated by those who have been born again. You're mixing the or do you not realize that you don't go and get married and then run across town to get a tux so you can get married in it. You have your events miscombobulated.
It's like the absurd notion that Baptism in water washes away sin. Ignorance. John's baptism was and is a baptism of REPENTANCE - not of cleansing from sin. One doesn't prepare the way for the savior by saving everyone before he arrives. Do you even know what it means to Repent? John's baptism is a public announcement that Hey, I've screwed up and I'm dedicating myself not to any further. Indeed, Repent! "For the day of the Lord is at hand. Stop sinning for salvation is within reach." The perversions that arise when unbelievers are overtaken by pretense..
SD
Wrong again. Why dont' you go test the souls at Burger King, or do something useful?
Those who turned away did not believe Jesus could give us His flesh to eat. They could only think carnally and were turned off by the idea of "cannibalism."
The Apostles did not knwo what to thnk of it, but they had faith in Jesus and knew not where elae they could go.
At the Last Supper, it became apparent that the eating of His Flesh would be done under the appearance of bread and Wine. IT all clicked together.
Except for those today, who still turn away, unable to believe the Jesus could have us eat His Flesh and not be cannibals. The story lives on. One side trusts Jesus to fulfill His Word in a non-repulsive manner. The other side loses faith and walks away mumbling.
It's like the absurd notion that Baptism in water washes away sin. Ignorance. John's baptism was and is a baptism of REPENTANCE - not of cleansing from sin. One doesn't prepare the way for the savior by saving everyone before he arrives.
You really, truly are ignorant. Why is any Catholic supposed to take you seriously when you don't understand the basic fundamental teachings? For what it's worth, all your bloviating here is besides the point. We don't teach that John's Baptism was efficacious. IT was merely symbolic.
It was only after the Resurrection, that Jesus commanded Baptism to be done that it became efficacious.
Of course, the most basic of understanding of Catholicism would help. As usual, you open your mouth to reveal your total ignorance.
SD
Of all the disagreements folks have with Catholic Marian practices and doctrine, I wish this was one we could put to rest. First, Elizabeth refers to Mary as 'the mother of My Lord.' I think we can all agree Mary was the mother of Our Lord. Also, I think we can all agree Our Lord is God. Hence, scripturally, there is a significant basis for arguing Mary is the Mother of God, since Mary is the mother of Our Lord and Our Lord is God.
Second, I know many of the posters who like to take potshots at the Marian title, Mother of God, are fully aware of the heretical movements the Church's adoption of this title was designed to combat -i.e. Nestorianism and Arianism. While you may not like the method, I would hope we are all in at least some agreement in our understanding of the Incarnation and the importance of stressing Jesus was both Man and God and that the adoption of this title was highlighted to drive that point home.
There are Catholics who have claimed to have the same ability. Some have been canonized. Do you believe that?
A. It's not the same.
#2 She's not an apostle.
Second, I know many of the posters who like to take potshots at the Marian title, Mother of God, are fully aware of the heretical movements the Church's adoption of this title was designed to combat -i.e. Nestorianism and Arianism. While you may not like the method, I would hope we are all in at least some agreement in our understanding of the Incarnation and the importance of stressing Jesus was both Man and God and that the adoption of this title was highlighted to drive that point home.
The Lord hardly needs the pope to deify Mary or the horse He road in on in order to defend Him.
Go back and look at my original posts to Malahki about how we observe the passover. Jesus fulfilled the passover and that's how we celebrate it. Despite attempts by Dave, who's so arrogantly caught up in his self importance on this thread that he thinks he has to respond to every sentence posted in here, to diminish what I said.
I have already clarified myself as to the specific application versus the general principle here.
SD
Ya I did you big dummy, and you're the one calling ME a hick from OK, LOL
BigMack
2.) Did Mary give birth to Jesus?
III.) What do we call someone who gives birth?
SD
******************* Mother of God *************
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
I had to add Gen 3 to build on mat 11:11. Both show that Jesus is not of Mary's seed since here we see that seed does NOT mean physical seed. If it did it would have to mean that for the serpent too.
Mat: 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
In other words He is not of Mary. She is not His mother genetically. He did not come from one of her eggs. Sure he came through her but he is not of her.
Mat 12:46-50 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Mark 3:31-35 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for the.
and he answered them, saying, who is my mother, or my brethren?
And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother and my sister, and mother.
Luke 11:27,28 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare these and the paps which thou has sucked.
but he said, Yea rather , blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Gal 4:22-31:
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Notice that there really is a mother of the church and it isn't Mary! Once again Mary is not even mentioned.
Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisdec.
Heb 7: 1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Melchizedek is a type of Christ and is a priest of a higher order than Aaron. His priesthood is typified by being based on merit and not on blood and it is an eternal priesthood. This verse shows that in the sense of Jesus has no mother or father. Jesus has no mother or father physically like Melchizedek but in what sense if the Father His Father? We know that Jesus was not created so it is really positionally that the Father is His Father. This shows that the whole idea and title of "Mother of God" is anti-scriptural. b>
*************** Ever Virgin *************
Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Normal reading of this says they had sex after she bore the Lord.
*********** Queen of Heaven *********
Jer 7:18 The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger.
Jer 44:19 The women also said, "And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, did we make cakes for her, to worship her, and pour out drink offerings to her without our husbands' permission?"
Jer 44:25 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying: "You and your wives have spoken with your mouths and fulfilled with your hands, saying, "We will surely keep our vows that we have made, to burn incense to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her." You will surely keep your vows and perform your vows!'
Mat 22: 25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
27 And last of all the woman died also.
28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mark 12:22
Luke 20:29
The fact that we are not given in marriage in heaven is repeated 3 times and usually with an exhortation about knowing the scriptures. The only reference to a queen of heaven is of a pagan idol. The rational for Mary being the Bride of the Holy Spirit is removed because we are not given in marriage in Heaven. The idea of her being Queen mother in heaven doesn’t work because if we don’t have wives in heaven, we don’t have kids in heaven. The Idea of Mary being the Mother of God and the wife of the Holy Spirit and the recipient of prayers makes her the 4th part of a man made quadiny.
****** Verses about Mary being assumed into heaven *****
None
******* Verses about Immaculate Conception of Mary *****
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
******* Verses about Mary distributing Grace ******
None
******* Verses that say to pray to dead people ******
None
********* Misrepresented Marian Verses: *********
Revelation 12
Gal 4 above shows that Mary is not the “Mother of us all”. These verses are about Israel.
The pain and travail is that of Israel for bearing the burden of the Law and the persecution right down to Rachel's weeping due to her sons being killed in an effort to get Jesus ****** wives fables ******
1 Tim 4:7 But reject profane and old wives' fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness.
Examples of profane wives fables.
IUCUNDA SMPER EXPECTATIONE ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON THE ROSARY
September 8, 1894
The recourse we have to Mary in prayer follows upon the office she continuously fills by the side of the throne of God as Mediatrix of Divine grace...
When she professed herself the handmaid of the Lord for the mother's office, and when, at the foot of the altar, she offered up her whole self with her Child Jesus-then and thereafter she took her part in the laborious expiation made by her Son for the sins of the world. It is certain, therefore, that she suffered in the very depths of her soul with His most bitter sufferings and with His torments. Moreover, it was before the eyes of Mary that was to be finished the Divine Sacrifice for which she had borne and brought up the Victim. As we contemplate Him in the last and most piteous of those Mysteries, there stood by the Cross of Jesus His Mother, who, in a miracle of charity, so that she might receive us as her sons, offered generously to Divine Justice her own Son, and died in her heart with Him, stabbed with the sword of sorrow...
Heck, there isn't an NC here who has expressed the importance of Jesus being related to Adam's people. They are agnostic about it, except when they need to deride us for having beliefs on it.
SD
You will likewise note that it says nothing about there being a mediator between man and Jesus. It also says nothing about there being no mediator between man and Mary.
When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!" (John 19:26)
Maybe you could pray to the beloved disciple to intercede with you to Mary, to intercede with you to Jesus, to mediate between you and God.
Or, you could pray to the Father directly.
Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
And forgive us our debts,
As we also have forgiven our debtors;
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil. (Matthew 6:9-13)
...how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! (Matthew 7:11)
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