Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
You keep saying this. And to some extent I agree. But why do you think no authority is required?
(Didn't these very bishops hundreds of years later establish the canon?)
Yes ... as directed by God, bishops established the collection of pre-existing Apostolic writings.
Duh. Of course the writings were pre-existing.
You dismiss as "directed by God" the fact that these bishops, whose authority you defy, are the very ones whom God used to give you the Bible you use as a substitute.
Didn't the Apostles act as "directed by God"? Why do you say that about the later bishops as if it is a proof against their authority to do what they did? It's nonsensical.
SD
How can you say this? Peter, and the others, definitely were commissioned to do so.
Matthew 10:
[5] These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans,
[6] but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Wow. Another completely unexpected deviation from the meaning I thought was common.
This command was given before the Resurrection. During Jesus' earthly ministry He sent His Disciples out in the Judean land to speak repentence and the Kingdom's inninence to the Jews.
After His Resurrection, He expanded the ministry to all nations. We see this when He tells them to make disciples of all the nations. The earlier, pre-Resurrection, ministry to the Jews was expanded.
To read this text as Jesus prohibiting the Apostles from ever, ever, going out to the nations is contrary not only to the later charge Jesus gives, but also to history, which is replete with far flung Churches established by Apostles.
Is it your belief that the Lost Tribes and the lost sheep of the house of Israel are not one and the same?
The Lost Tribes are not the "lost sheep." The lost sheep are the ones in Israel at the time, the Jews who had fallen away, the ones that Jesus came to call to repent.
The Lost Tribes are in faraway lands, if known at all. Certainly the Apostles did not go to visit them while JEsus was on earth.
So, the entire argument that Peter coudl not have been in Rome because of this verse is preposterous.
SD
Twas the Catholic church, which sprung from a mixture of Messianic belief and paganism, insofar as they dictated we should celebrate Easter (the pagan goddess of Ishtar). I can't help it if you can't shake all of the Romanism off. :-)
Of coruse, the fact that "Easter" is a peculiar word in the English language, and not used by the Church in other tongues, does nto give you pause.
The Church refers to the "Easter" time as the "paschal" season. Which refers right back to passover.
SD
it is probably the most often repeated, painstakingly explained and plain spoken thing He is recorded as saying. How vague is this? "THIS IS MY BODY"
Of course, underlying this is your assumption that the Catholic church's interpretation of these words is correct.
You mean, it matters what "is" is? ;-)
SD
I mean god forbid that one should go down to the local cemetary, dig these people up and take them to mcdonalds. Seems nothing gets past you - they must have all lain down and went to stiffness and rott to play an absurd joke on you and your religion. I should imagine they'll all think it an immense practical joke that they've all wasted centuries in the ground pretending to be dead when all the time they were actually alive and unaware of it. I suppose it was an act of treason to note the passing of John F Kennedy.
My dear. Talk about a lack of discernment. To confuse the death of the body for the death of the Christian is so sad to see.
To have such from our very own oracle and "amen, brother!" favorite anti-Catholic preacher is even sadder.
SD
Wow. All you NCs out there see this?
Havoc has the ability to peer into souls and see who is "surrounded in evil." Do y'all believe that?
The Holy Spirit does distribute the spiritual gift of the discerning of spirits to whom He will.1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
If my fellow sacramentalists would help swat away some of the crazier notions around here...
Don't you think it matters a great deal whether Jesus is related to existing humanity or not?
SD
What does that mean, exactly?
SD
Ok. I just paused for about 5 seconds.
According to the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, Easter was named after a pagan goddess of the Anglo-Saxons named Eostre, the goddess of the dawn.
Nice try tho.
They'd better get to work because I've yet to see any swatted away yet.
The word Easter appears once in the King James version of the Bible.Herod has put Peter in prison, "intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people" (Acts 12:4). Yet in the original Greek text the word is not Easter, but Pesach, that is Passover. So why was the name changed? Please read on, and remember Exodus 34:14; For you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous G-d.
"Asherah" the Greek form of this word from the Septuagint is "Astarte", who is the Babylonian goddess of the sea, sea being symbolic of people, and consort of the god El. She was the mother of several gods, including Ba'al, the Babylonian god of the sun. These deities were soon adopted by the Canaanites when they named these female deities the Ashereh or Asherim. These deities were made of wood carved from a type of evergreen tree, or often they were set up in Canaanite homes as full trees cut down from a forest. The Asherim normally were highly acknowledged during two specific occasions. First and foremost, they were the fertility gods of the spring equinox, when the days and nights were approximately the same in length, signifying the beginning of living things growing for the summer season. A very common practice in the Canaanite religion was performed on the first Sunday of the equinox. The families would face east to await the rising of the sun, which was the chief symbol of the sun god, Ba'al. Later on during the day, the children of the Canaanite parents would often go and hunt for eggs, which were symbolic of sex, fertility and new life. It was believed that these eggs came from rabbits, which in the pagan world were symbolic of lust, sexual prowess and reproduction.
And secondly, they were highly worshipped and celebrated during the winter solstice. As according to Jer. 10:1-5; Is. 40:19-20; 41:7 and 44:9-20, the pagans would go out into the forest and do one of two things. Either they chopped down a tree and carved a female deity out of it, or they would simply bring the tree into the house and decorate it with gold and silver ornaments symbolizing the sun and the moon while nailing a stand on the bottom so it would not totter or tip over.
Out of this practice came many other variations of these pagan festivals until the Roman Catholic Church adopted the Asherah worship and named it EASTER around 155 A.D. According to the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, Easter was named after a pagan goddess of the Anglo-Saxons named Eostre, the goddess of the dawn. A great controversy arose between the Catholic Church and the Greek Orthodox Church in 325 A.D. on whether to celebrate Easter on Sundays or on whatever day the Jewish Passover fell upon. Unfortunately, the Greeks lost a lot of followers and the Catholics contended that keeping Easter on Sundays would stimulate the practices of both the Christian world and the pagan worshippers. Note that the word CATHOLIC means "universal" or "one world" in thought, concept and practice. Hence, since the original practice of Asherah worship we now have in our time the celebration of Easter, a counterfeit holiday to the true Christian festival of the Passover which was instituted in the Bible and completed in the New Testament when Christ died on the cross as our Passover Lamb.
...For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.
Many newcomers get apprehensive because they try to mask the conversations with attitudes they project onto the words. You'd be well served to try and apply the voice of Ben Stein to all the conversation here. The droning may put you to sleep; but, it'll break you of the habit of assumimg postures. Though a couple of the guys on the other side can get real crotchety when they are at a disadvantage (ie, usually).
I take after the teaching of Paul. I'm bold and secure in what I know. That is an offense to the other side. They think it pretentious to think you know what Christ said. I don't apologize for the truth, nor for being right, nor for what it does to someone else's worldview. I may sympathize; but, I do not coddle people in error. Understand, many think it's rude to point out error, Imagine their reaction when that error is corrected (WWIII). Some want to pretend that their long history is a mark of favor but then they reject the consequence of that history because it largely shows them doing things that would have most of us in jail or dead if we were to attempt it. Think about it - The US and the world want's the blood of the Enron leadership because of a betrayal regarding money. Imagine the response of the Catholic church if the truth were allowed to be known about it. It's no wonder the way the paid apollogists respond when faced with facts. Problem is they can't hide them and fudge all this stuff with God. They may destroy souls with their pursuit of power; but, God will have his due. I'd rather be at the mercy of the millions personally...
Ok. I just paused for about 5 seconds.
So there;s a hint of a conscience left.
According to the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, Easter was named after a pagan goddess of the Anglo-Saxons named Eostre, the goddess of the dawn.
I think we all admitted that the name IN ENGLISH is derived from such sources. Your earlier statement is that the entire feast of Easter was, in Roman times, a celebration of this goddess is shown to be untrue.
So you remain a liar, attempting to swindle the ignorant by the use of crude semantics.
LEt's see what the Catholic Encyclopedia says, for real.
The English term, according to the Ven. Bede (De temporum ratione, I, v), relates to Estre, a Teutonic goddess of the rising light of day and spring
The English term. The name. Not the reason or the origin of the feast. Let's continue.
, which deity, however, is otherwise unknown, even in the Edda (Simrock, Mythol., 362); Anglo-Saxon, eâster, eâstron; Old High German, ôstra, ôstrara, ôstrarûn; German, Ostern. April was called easter-monadh. The plural eâstron is used, because the feast lasts seven days. Like the French plural Pâques, it is a translation from the Latin Festa Paschalia, the entire octave of Easter.
It's a translation of the term "Paschalia." It's a damn poor translation, but that's what we have. The feast is, and remains one of "Paschalia." I wonder where that name came from?
The Greek term for Easter, pascha, has nothing in common with the verb paschein, "to suffer," although by the later symbolic writers it was connected with it; it is the Aramaic form of the Hebrew word pesach (transitus, passover).
Holy Crap! The feast is the Passover. Not about some alleged goddess. I guess you'll apologize now?
The Greeks called Easter the pascha anastasimon; Good Friday the pascha staurosimon. The respective terms used by the Latins are Pascha resurrectionis and Pascha crucifixionis. In the Roman and Monastic Breviaries the feast bears the title Dominica Resurrectionis
Dominica Resurrectionis? Almost sounds like "resurrection of the Lord." How could this be some pagan feast?
; in the Mozarbic Breviary, In Lætatione Diei Pasch Resurrectionis; in the Ambrosian Breviary, In Die Sancto Paschæ. The Romance languages have adopted the Hebrew-Greek term: Latin, Pascha; Italian, Pasqua; Spanish, Pascua; French, Also some Celtic and Teutonic nations use it: Scottish, Pask; Dutch, Paschen; Danish, Paaske; Swedish, Pask; even in the German provinces of the Lower Rhine the people call the feast Paisken not Ostern. The word is, principally in Spain and Italy, identified with the word "solemnity" and extended to other feasts, e.g. Sp., Pascua florida, Palm Sunday; Pascua de Pentecostes, Pentecost; Pascua de la Natividad, Christmas; Pascua de Epifania, Epiphany. In some parts of France also First Communion is called Pâques, whatever time of the year administered.
So, like I said, only in English is this unfortunate term used. Deal with it.
SD
And further, does your source know that the KJV is a Protestant Bible?
Of what matter is how a Protestant translated the Bible evidence of a Roman decision to worship pagans 1200 years earlier.
Typical Protestant scholarship.
SD
He said, spinning. ;o)
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