The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[malakhi]

Oh. Now I get it.....Please don't post it again Please

?

Independent Fundamentalist Bible Baptist.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Just curious, how does your congregation observe or celebrate the resurrection? Do they incorporate it into Passover?

We say the traditional blessing before taking the bread and the wine. For the bread, "Baruch atah Adonai elohainu melech ha-olam, ha-motzee lechem min ha-arets, Amen. For the wine, Baruch atah Adonai elohainu melech ha-olam, boraeh p'ree ha-gafen; Amen. We do this in rememberance of Yeshua as instructed by Him. When we partake in the bread we remember his body being broken and when we partake in the wine we remember his blood being shed. In no way are we drinking blood in reality or symbolically.

Yes, in our passover celebration, the third cup of the Seder commemorates that Yeshua is the fulfillment of the passover. This 3rd cup is the one that he explained to disciples on the night of his arrest that they should drink in rememberance of Him.

[drstevej]

I'm looking forward to drinking the fourth cup with Him in the future.

[malakhi]

Yes, in our passover celebration, the third cup of the Seder commemorates that Yeshua is the fulfillment of the passover. This 3rd cup is the one that he explained to disciples on the night of his arrest that they should drink in rememberance of Him.

Other than that, though, there is no specific commemoration of the resurrection itself?

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Other than that, though, there is no specific commemoration of the resurrection itself?

Well, for the most part its a traditional jewish type of passover ceremony. But when a person believes that Yeshua is the passover its kind of an understood overiding theme.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I'm looking forward to drinking the fourth cup with Him in the future.

Yes. Me too. When we close out the 4th and last cup at the passover celebration we say "next year in Jerusalem". So I say to you my brother "next year in Jerusalem".

[SoothingDave]

Re 48688

Yes, and they went out and ordained other bishops, who shared in their authority. Remember Titus, Paul instructs him to act with all authority.

Yes, Paul granted to Titus all of the authority necessary for his calling (that of a Bishop ... or overseer of a church, I believe).

I didn't see that. It would seem you are reading this into the text. Mine simply says "all authority" not "all authority necessary to be a bishop."

That didn't make Titus an Apostle, nor is he ever referred to as an Apostle. All of those who are called Apostles in the Bible were witnesses to the resurrected Christ.

Yes, we make the distinction as well. Those who came after the Apostles are not apostles. But they do inherit the authority of the office. Not a limited (how?) authority of a "bishop" as opposed to apostolic authority, but the full authority given by Jesus to His Twelve.

(Didn't these very bishops hundreds of years later establish the canon?)

SD

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Hey Dave you're back. Boy do you have a big alledged "mess" to clean up. :-)

[SoothingDave]

Well, for the most part its a traditional jewish type of passover ceremony. But when a person believes that Yeshua is the passover its kind of an understood overiding theme.

Sure. You say that you believe in the Resurrection as some type of "overriding theme," but that is just a "disclaimer" that we should not believe. Right?

God knows we aren't allowed to have our words or actions interpreted according to an overriding, understood, unspoken theme.

SD

[Invincibly Ignorant]

God knows we aren't allowed to have our words or actions interpreted according to an overriding, understood, unspoken theme.

What are you talking about? We speak freely.

[al_c]

Oh, Wonkie ... this must be a special day for you. It's an optional memorial for your favorite saint. ;o)

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Monday, April 28, 2003
St. Louis de Montfort, Priest (Optional Memorial)

First Reading: Responsorial Psalm: Gospel:

Acts 4:23-31 Psalm 2:1-9 John 3:1-8 If you have done nothing, or if what you have done has been fruitless because it was done for a human motive, begin immediately to do good works so that at death you will be able to offer something to Jesus Christ in order that He may give you eternal life.  -- St John Vianney

The following is, as usual, from The Word Among Us:

A Jewish leader, Nicodemus sought Jesus out at night, possibly to avoid discovery by his peers. He believed that there was something of God's work in what Jesus said and did, something worth pursuing. Yet, even though he took a risk to meet Jesus, and even though he detected God's work through this rabbi, Jesus insisted that this noble-minded religious leader be "born anew" (John 3:3) in order to see the kingdom of God.

"How can a man be born when he is old?" (John 3:4). The statement baffled Nicodemus' logic. It may even have moved him to reconsider Jesus' credentials. But Jesus explained that until Nicodemus was "born anew" by the Spirit of God, he would remain bound by the shadowy limitations of human reasoning. Just as he came to Jesus under the cover of physical darkness, he would remain in spiritual darkness without the transforming effect of this new birth.

Nicodemus' encounter with Jesus shows that without the intervention of the Holy Spirit, we can miss out on the fullness of truth. We can be good people with good intentions, but our relationship with Jesus will be determined more by how well we obey the commandments and love others than it will simply by our intentions. But when we seek the transforming power of the Spirit, we become partakers of the very nature of God, empowered by the Spirit not only to obey God, but to become like God.

As Christians, we have chosen to accept the Apostles' Creed, renounce sin, and receive Christ as our Savior and Lord. Yet every day, we need to acknowledge and live according to the spiritual "new birth" that is ours. We were "born anew" in the Spirit so that we could walk in the Spirit with increasing maturity (Galatians 5:16-25). Let us pursue the Holy Spirit every day in prayer as we experience a living relationship with Jesus, the lover of our souls.

"Holy Spirit, I need your revelation. I don't want to rely only on my understanding. Let me experience your divine love, and let that love transform my life."

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God bless.

AC

[SoothingDave]

Hey Dave you're back. Boy do you have a big alledged "mess" to clean up

Not really. Just Havoc bloviating as usual. Cindy asked some sincere things which I'll answer.

And we have Jim pulling out the old chestnut "there's no proof Peter was in Rome" which is not even worth mentioning. If one wishes to hold an opinion contrary to the encyclopedia and to such secular sources as the History Channel, one is not about to be persuaded by anything I say.

And of course Reggie has heard a million times why we believe that the Bread and Wine are each fully the Undivided Body and Blood of Christ. So there's no need to go over that either.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Are these not your words?:

But when a person believes that Yeshua is the passover its kind of an understood overiding theme.

SD

[Invincibly Ignorant]

But when a person believes that Yeshua is the passover its kind of an understood overiding theme.

Yes those are my words. But where in there does it say we're careful not to mention anything about the Messiah?

[SoothingDave]

Re 48690

But JESUS said ...
I am the Bread of Life.
... as opposed to (your interpretation) ...
This bread is ME.

Please cross-reference the Last Supper, where Jesus fills in the details about the Bread being His Body.

Also, in John 6, Jesus tells us that the Bread that He will give is His Flesh for the life of the world.

It's not that hard to put the pieces together.

SD

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Please cross-reference the Last Supper, where Jesus fills in the details about the Bread being His Body. Also, in John 6, Jesus tells us that the Bread that He will give is His Flesh for the life of the world. It's not that hard to put the pieces together.

You hyper-literalist puritans are something else. :-)

[SoothingDave]

But where in there does it say we're careful not to mention anything about the Messiah?

I didn't say that. What I said was that, even though you were doing a Jewish ritual, you had attached Messianic themes to the actions. And that these things were not explicit, but were "understood" to give an overriding theme to the actions and words.

SD

[drstevej]

Shalom!

[SoothingDave]

For your information, "Puritans" were iconoclastic, anti-sacramentalists. Hardly an apt description for a Catholic.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Re 48691

There is no clash of Wills. No one is getting any graces from Mary that God didn't intend.

So you agree Mary isn't necessary?

Does not follow. How do you define "necessary?"

SD