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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)
Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.


Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; michaeldobbs
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Members of every sect think that everyone else is blind or blinkered.
47,961 posted on 04/21/2003 8:22:03 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: CindyDawg
You ain't a Protestant either ya big dummy. :)

BigMack

47,962 posted on 04/21/2003 8:22:55 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: CindyDawg
Wow. You guys party a lot don't you? And here I was, feeling sorry for yall caz you miss out on all the holidays :')

Let's see..I'm taking off I think 9 days this year for feasts and holy days. The next one is the last day of unleavened bread on Wednesday. Spring and fall are the feast seasons. So yeah, lot's of worshipping going on there... :-)

47,963 posted on 04/21/2003 8:22:55 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC
Share my favorite line in difficult situations with her. "I'll just watch this time". Also send her to Roses. My husband MADE me go get my nails done, the first time. Now I'm a regular customer. Next week I'm gonna have them air brush a flag on my right pinky fingernail.
47,964 posted on 04/21/2003 8:24:35 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: RobbyS
Zwingli and Luther were the first Christians--successfully--to to start movements that studied the Bible as rabbinical Jews study the Torah and Muslims study the Koran, as the literal language of God.

And you'd have a tough time convincing many Messianic Jews that Luther attempted Torah discipline. He's made as many anti-jewish remarks out of ignorance as many Catholics do. Your assertion is ridiculous.

47,965 posted on 04/21/2003 8:26:37 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: RobbyS
Members of every sect think that everyone else is blind or blinkered.

Glad to hear it from the voice of experience.

47,966 posted on 04/21/2003 8:27:43 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: CindyDawg
Yeah , that was beginning to be a problem for me too. Even though I used break time I just felt I needed to be working. I just leave it on and scroll thru posts to see whats happening.

Oh yeah, I'll check in every hour or two and see what's happening too. It's hard on a day like today though to keep up.

What do you do?

47,967 posted on 04/21/2003 8:28:58 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Heck no. I'm gonna be a Jew for Jesus :') Malakhi too. I'm gonna watch first though. You and Becky want to join too? I have to warn yall though, that you will need a date planner caz it seems like these guys have some holiday going on all the time.
47,968 posted on 04/21/2003 8:31:15 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: DouglasKC
Spend all evening catching up. Your wife may not be to happy about that though. I keep getting the "look" from my husband. Know what I mean?
47,969 posted on 04/21/2003 8:34:37 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: CindyDawg
Spend all evening catching up. Your wife may not be to happy about that though. I keep getting the "look" from my husband. Know what I mean?

Yah, but I get a pass tonight because she's working till 11 and won't be home yet for a few minutes... :-)

47,970 posted on 04/21/2003 8:37:06 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC; CindyDawg
#50,000

BigMack

Looks pretty good with my name under it. :)

BigMack
47,971 posted on 04/21/2003 8:41:16 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: DouglasKC
lol...some of the stories I've heard would kill ya...

I happened to pare up with a dignified looking, well dressed fellow, and I showed him over to a folding chair and told him to go ahead first.

He sat down and started taking off his shoe, and said you'll only be washing one of my feet tonight.

Being in the WWCofG, I immediately thought to my self, Oh Oh, I got a live one tonight.

I said, Oh, why's that?

He said I only have one leg.

Then he knocked on it to quell my "Yehhh Right" look. Lol

He still had to wash both of mine though. Ha ha

JH :-)

47,972 posted on 04/21/2003 8:43:31 PM PDT by JHavard (You don't know what you don't know)
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To: SoothingDave; al_c; Invincibly Ignorant; biblewonk; OLD REGGIE; ksen
Continuing on...

Benedict XV, Litterae Apostolicae, Inter Sodalicia, March 22, 1918, AAS 10, 1918, 182

... the fact that she was with Him crucified and dying, was in accord with the divine plan. For with her suffering and dying Son, Mary endured suffering and almost death. She gave up her Mother's rights over her Son to procure the salvation of mankind, and to appease the divine justice, she, as much as she could, immolated her Son, so that one can truly affirm that together with Christ she has redeemed the human race. But if for this reason, every kind of grace we receive from the treasury of the redemption is ministered as it were through the hands of the same Sorrowful Virgin, everyone can see that a holy death should be expected from her, since it is precisely by this gift that the work of the Redemption is effectively and permanently completed in each one ... further, there is a most constant belief among the faithful, proved by long experience, that as many as employ the same Virgin as Patron, will not at all perish forever.



Pius XII, Encyclical, Ad Caeli Reginam, Oct. 11, 1954. AAS 46. 634-35.

In accomplishing this work of the redemption, the Most Blessed Virgin Mary was certainly closely joined with Christ ... was associated with Jesus Christ, the very principle of salvation, by divine plan, and indeed in a way similar to that in which Eve was associated with Adam, the principle of death, so that we can say that the work of our salvation was accomplished according to a certain recapitulation ... and if she was joined with her Son, even on Golgotha, [and] she offered Him, together with the holocaust of her Mother's rights and love, like a New Eve, for all the sons of Adam, defiled by his wretched fall, as a result, beyond doubt, it is right to conclude that just as Christ, the New Adam should be called King not only because He is the Son of God, but also because He is our Redeemer, so by a certain analogy, the most Blessed Virgin is Queen, not only because she is the Mother of God, but also because as the New Eve she was associated with the New Adam

(Same source) John Paul II, Allocution at the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Guayaquil, given on Jan 31, 1985, reported in L'Osservatore Romano Supplement of Feb. 2, 1985 and in English L'Osservatore Romano, March 11, 1985, p. 7.

Crucified spiritually with her crucified Son (cf. Gal 2:20), she contemplated with heroic love the death of her God, she 'lovingly consented to the immolation of this Victim which she herself had brought forth' (Lumen gentium #58) ... as she was in a special way close to the Cross of her Son, she also had to have a privileged experience of his Resurrection. In fact, Mary's role as co- redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son.



UBI PRIMUM (On The Immaculate Conception)
Pope Pius IX
Encyclical Promulgated on 2 February 1849


Great indeed is Our trust in Mary. The resplendent glory of her merits, far exceeding all the choirs of angels, elevates her to the very steps of the throne of God.[1] Her foot has crushed the head of Satan. Set up between Christ and His Church,[2] Mary, ever lovable and full of grace, always has delivered the Christian people from their greatest calamities and from the snares and assaults of all their enemies, ever rescuing them from ruin...

The foundation of all Our confidence, as you know well, Venerable Brethren, is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. For, God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will, that we obtain everything through Mary.



DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964


This maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, and lasts until The eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix. This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.

To be continued?

47,973 posted on 04/21/2003 8:46:33 PM PDT by malakhi (fundamentalist unitarian)
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
aint gonna happen!
47,974 posted on 04/21/2003 8:49:29 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Yes,it seems to me to me you are an example.
47,975 posted on 04/21/2003 9:01:27 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
50,000
BigMack
Looks pretty good with my name under it. :)

Dream on Mr. 49,999 boy... :-)

47,976 posted on 04/21/2003 9:01:30 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: CindyDawg
Just a friendly suggestion but you might want to cut him some slack.

I didn't see it as heat being applied but merely a stark question slapped in front of him. I don't believe in playing kid gloves with everyone and pretending they have to be coddled and sweet talked into things. This is reality - this is big boy stuff and I think he's demonstrated aptly that he's thinking hard. I just want him to be real about it. Scripture says "x" is undisputeably true. It does not say how "x" was accomplished. And quite frankly, It makes no difference how it happened. We have faith in God that he by example works within his laws and cannot sin against himself by breaking them. We can have confidence that is so. The devil takes great pleasure in second guessing God and getting others to do the same. I have no beef with AlguyA so far. I do have a beef with those here who wish to utter things that are nowhere in God's message as delivered through Christ and the Apostles and want to state it as fact with no foundation and though it contravenes God's laws. When they start blaspheming God, we have a problem.

You're a new face to me so let me back up and say "Hey". And if you haven't figured it out I'm a very frank - pull no punches kind of guy. I'm a staunch defender of the word and I have little sympathy toward giving ground to the devil where that is concerned.

47,977 posted on 04/21/2003 9:03:05 PM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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To: SoothingDave; al_c; Invincibly Ignorant; biblewonk; OLD REGGIE; ksen
Continuing on...

Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces
by Father William G. Most


...We notice that Vatican II did not add the words "of all graces." However, as many papal texts point out, Mary's role in dispensation flows logically from her role in acquiring all graces. Further, the Council itself added a note on the above passage, in which it refers us to the texts of Leo XIII, Adiutricem populi, St. Pius X, Ad diem illum, Pius XI, Miserentissimus Redemptor, and Pius XII, Radiomessage to Fatima.

Leo XIII, in the text referred to, spoke of her, as we saw above, as having "practically limitless power." St. Pius X said she was the "dispensatrix of all the gifts, and is the "neck" connecting the Head of the Mystical Body to the Members. But all power flows through the neck. Pius XII said "Her kingdom is as vast as that of her Son and God, since nothing is excluded from her dominion." These and many other texts speak in varied ways of Mary as Mediatrix of all graces, so often that the teaching has become infallible...

47,978 posted on 04/21/2003 9:04:44 PM PDT by malakhi (fundamentalist unitarian)
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To: CindyDawg
A couple of months ago I was very sick. It hit me hard. I was fine and then achy and fever and the next thing I knew I was congested in my chest. It was a rough week.

My in-laws had the same thing a month or so ago. Thanks for your input.

47,979 posted on 04/21/2003 9:06:11 PM PDT by malakhi (fundamentalist unitarian)
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To: malakhi
This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.

as can be seen in the language of the mass, which is the great public ceremony of the Church. Mary is mentioned only in passing.

47,980 posted on 04/21/2003 9:07:03 PM PDT by RobbyS
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