The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[CindyDawg]

Not Mary's egg? Puh-leeze. I'm still waiting for someone from the non-Catholic side to take that one on. There is no biblical evidence to support such a claim.

I could give you all kinds of A/P data on why this wouldn't work but with God anything is possible. I guess if he figured we needed to know how he did it, he would have told us. Why is this so important? Either way is fine with me It's the results that count, right?

[CindyDawg]

Is she just "a mother"? I wouldn't say that. I also wouldn't say that she is just like the others who did God's will.

Why is that?

You are a mother, right? How can you not recognize that the person chosen by God to bring Him into the world is a special and distinct honor, even among the other saints?

Did I not state that she was honored by God?

As for prayer to saints, this is just an area where we disagree. As I've said many times before, we do not view the Christian community to be composed of two, seperated halves, the dead and the living.

Well do what you like. I will still comtinue to honor and respect Mary for what she did but I won't pray to her or her statues. Did I tell you that that statue with the cushioned alter has a vase and people are placing flowers there now? The whole place makes me uncomfortable. Just a suggestion but the next time you pray to Jesus why don't you ask him how he feels about you praying to Mary, his mother?

[katnip]

Hey, Reg ... ask the bishops in Mass to do this starting with the Kennedys

That's something to pray for. I wonder if Teddy was publicly admonished by his bishop if it would make any difference at the polls.

Great "Battle Pope" picture by the way :-]

[CindyDawg]

I'm saved but I'm not perfect because I'm still a sinner. A forgiven one but still a sinner. I start out each day striving for perfection but I fail. We all do, don't you think?

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

I could be wrong (you guys help me out) but to me Hebrews 14 is talking about Jesus perfecting a way to remove our sins. A few verses up he speaks about priests not being able to do so but when Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice he did

Phil 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

.I'm not sure exactly what Paul is saying here yet but when he talks of apprehended, in the next verse he says he hasn't apprehended. It sounds to me that he is preaching on how to strive towards perfection.

There are about many definitions of perfect.

No kidding. Ever see how many ways Dave can define worship? :')

[CindyDawg]

You can't be saying that Mary never sinned? I have to be misunderstanding here .

[CindyDawg]

I don't feel like playing stupid semantic games

Oh no! Not getting sick on us are you? lol

[CindyDawg]

I think Stephen was a perpetual virgin. :-)

He probably never sinned either :')

[CindyDawg]

Becky is that picture really of Mack?

[CindyDawg]

Ok, I've gone thru all the posts now so I'll stop. Dave , you want to know why I can't post from work anymore?

[RobbyS]

He is right in saying that the cult of the Virgin had many adherents among those to whom the Holy Spirit was a mere abstraction. A mother personifies grace in a way that a bird cannot.

[RobbyS]

Next time you see the flowers in front of the image of a saint recall that wreathe that is placed before the tombs of the Unknown, or even the flowers on a mether's grave. It has the same meaning.

[RobbyS]

Mary experienced God in a way that no other person ever has. Is it so hard to believe that she always conformed to His Will? That does not mean that she could not err or suffer from human weakness. Like us she was/is totally dependent on her Son, who finally delivered her as He delivers all the saints.

[JHavard]

He is right in saying that the cult of the Virgin had many adherents among those to whom the Holy Spirit was a mere abstraction. A mother personifies grace in a way that a bird cannot.

Mt 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Now let me ask you again, do you agree with what he wrote about Mary's being able to acquire divinity by her own righteousness, and God's Holy Spirit was not needed in her case.

JH

[RobbyS]

Pardon me, but what does what you say have to do with what Tillich said?

[JHavard]

Pardon me, but what does what you say have to do with what Tillich said?

RobbyS - As is often the case, only Paul Tillich manages to deal with the matter with some sense of proportion: Paul Tilich : A History of Christian Thought, Page 78 "The (holy ) Spirit was replaced in actual piety by the Holy Virgin. The virgin who gave birth to God acquired divinity herself to a certain extent, at least for popular piety."

Did I paraphrase what he said incorrectly in my post?

Please paraphrase it in your words for me.

Isn't he saying that Mary didn't need God's Holy Spirit, because she used her own piety to acquire her own divinity?

JH

[RobbyS]

No, he is saying that many people gave devotion to the Virgin Msry that he thought should be given to the Holy Ghost. And I say that it is much easier to relate to such a figure than to such a figure as the Holy Ghost, which seems more like a "force" than a "person." Mary,after all, was a human being who however we may exault her was still a Mother.

[JHavard]

No, he is saying that many people gave devotion to the Virgin Msry that he thought should be given to the Holy Ghost. And I say that it is much easier to relate to such a figure than to such a figure as the Holy Ghost, which seems more like a "force" than a "person." Mary,after all, was a human being who however we may exault her was still a Mother.

I guess that's what happens when you loose your Magic RCC Decoder Ring, huh?

Bugs Bunny wouldn't be a threatening figure either, I guess we can pretend the Holy Spirit is anyone we want him to be.

JH :-)

[CindyDawg]

Next time you see the flowers in front of the image of a saint recall that wreathe that is placed before the tombs of the Unknown, or even the flowers on a mether's grave. It has the same meaning

I hear what you are saying but to me it seems to be more than a remembrance. It would be like placing flowers in the arms of a statue of a mother or soldier, kneeling on an alter before them, and praying to someone who has died, which I think somewhere in the Bible, God tells us not to do. I'm looking for it.

[CindyDawg]

Mary experienced God in a way that no other person ever has. Is it so hard to believe that she always conformed to His Will? That does not mean that she could not err or suffer from human weakness. Like us she was/is totally dependent on her Son, who finally delivered her as He delivers all the saints.

For me it is. I can agree with a lot of what you post but not the sinless part. Was she conforming to His will at this time? absolutely. All of her life? Since I can't find in the Bible where God says she never sinned then I have to believe that even though she did a great work for God she was still a sinner like the rest of us. Yes, she had grace but we receive grace too once we are saved. Yall seem to think I'm bashing Mary. That is absolutely incorrect. I have repeatedly stated I have the highest respect for her (the mother of Jesus) for what she did but I don't accept that she is part of the trinity. Show me scripture where I'm wrong.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

however we may exault her was still a Mother.

Is exault different from worship too?