Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
You think, perhaps, that this is a sexual reference? Grow up.
You think this is not a sexual reference.
OK Slick Willie. You win.
Jesus has no mother spiritually and typically. This shows that the whole idea and title of "Mother of God" is anti-scriptural. Being like the Son of God means that you have no mother.
Thanks Reggie. I now have an image of Joseph in my mind, shaking his finger and saying "I did not have sex with that woman..."
You are the sons of the LORD your God; you shall not cut yourselves or make any baldness on your foreheads for the dead. (Deuteronomy 14:1)
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. (Romans 8:14)
Whole lotta people without moms out there.
When did Jesus become God?
SD
Becky, do you remember what I posted last week, about viewing Jesus's death as an act of reconciling the world with God, rather than as one of atoning for sin? Check this out.... that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5:19)I don't wish to intrude, but ... could not JESUS' death have effected both results (i.e. reconciling the world to God ... and ... atoning for sin) ?
In fact, ... does not the verse you referenced indicate this ... ?... that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5:19)
Better you than me. We were supposed to hit 82 today, it was high 70s yesterday. Should be nice all week, then rain for Easter.
SD
I would distinguish between the forgiveness of sin and the atonement for sin. Consider my #2 hobbyhorse scripture passage.
The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. (Ezekiel 18:20)
Clear and to the point. How can you reconcile the plain meaning of this passage with the belief that Jesus's death in some way atoned for the sins of mankind?
Clear and to the point. How can you reconcile the plain meaning of this passage with the belief that Jesus's death in some way atoned for the sins of mankind?
Maybe the "himself" is a reference to Jesus. So the righteousness that any of us has is from "himself" and the wickedness was upon "himself."
SD
Isaiah says our righteousness is as filthy rags. So who's Ezekiel referring to as "righteous"?
Anyway, yes that is a good verse. I also read questers response to your post. What do you think of that?
Becky
The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. (Ezekiel 18:20)
Clear and to the point. How can you reconcile the plain meaning of this passage with the belief that Jesus's death in some way atoned for the sins of mankind?
Malakhi ... this proclamation of God through Ezekiel was given in response to the Israelite complaint that they were being punished, not for their own sins, but for their father's sins.Ezekiel 18:1 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,It is my contention that, in verse 4, as in verse 20 (wich you referenced), God sets forth His justice.
2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
I.e. ... every man/woman is responsible for their own sins. God will not punish me for yours, ... nor will He punish you for mine.
God is very clear here ... almost brutally so ...All souls are Mine (i.e. to do with what I will) ... and ...With this revelation, there seems to be no way out for us ... for who among us has not sinned ?
... the soul that sins shall die.
But ... God, because of His love for us, chose to (per His Word) temper His justice with mercy (as a judge/politician may grant a stay of execution).
God declared a method for the remission (taking away) of sin ... sacrifice.
The Israelites practiced animal sacrifice ... as they had been instructed by God.
But, ... later in scripture it is revealed that the blood of animals is insufficient to take away sins.Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.King David was enlightened with as much in Psalms 51 ... where he cries out for forgiveness for his sins concerning Bathsheba ...Psalm 51:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba. Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.So, we needed a sacrifice ... but, of one like us, ... except perfect in every way (as was required of a sacrifice).
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
...
Psalms 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
So JESUS came and gave His life for ours ... the just for the unjust ... that we might be reconciled to God and have eternal life with Him.
To summarize ... God's justice (through Ezekiel) said ... However, God's mercy said ...... but , I love you ... I want to save you ... therefore, ... I will temper my justice with mercy ... I will accept a perfect sacrifice to take away your sins ... not only that ... but ... I will provide it.That sacrifice has been made ... our sins have been taken away ... it is only up to us to accept this great gift ... and live.
This Thursday is the 15th of Nisan on the Levitical calendar. It is the first day of Passover.
This Sunday is the day after the Sabbath following the beginning of Passover . It is the Feast of First Fruits.
The Christ was sacrificed as our Passover Lamb for our sins.
He rose from the grave in order to be our First Fruits offering to Abba.
Easter and Passover have aligned this year and the previous two years
i.e. they have aligned for three years in a row.
Passover and First Fruits are what was celebrated by Christians until 325 AD when at the Council at Nice,
the Corporate Church separated Easter and Passover for what they hoped would be forever.
Since the Council of Nice, they only align every 19 years
The Metonic cycle of 19 years has twelve years of 12 months and seven years of 13 months
I think the L-rd is reminding the Jews that the Mashiach has come and His Name is Y'shua.
I think the L-rd is sending a message to the "Replacement" Christians that His brothers are the Jews.
Matthew 23:39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say,
`Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'" [Psalm 118:26]
Barukh haba b'Shem Adonai
Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord
Y'shua HaMashiach
chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>
I think you need to study the Koine Greek, Dave.
The word translated Until based on the Grammar should say While as in during the pregnancy.
The word means While when used with the indicative verb GSN-1097 (to know)
Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the
Thessalonians, for they received the message with great
eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if
what Paul said was true.
chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>
Have you met "what's-his-name"? I almost cuss at him on completely non-religious threads. Add in a good cult (if only sociologically so) topic and I'd be insulting until the sun went down.
Do you think sex is not involved in the intimacy of a husband and wife? Do you think it is not part of "one flesh"? Grow up.
Paul and Jesus address different situations and different groups of people. This does not mean that their ideas were divergent. If I was addressing a group of American teenagers, I would tend to address different subject from different perspectives than if I was addressing Italian grandparents (if I wished to be relevant to and heard by my audience).
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