Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Granted, it does not specifically say that he ever knew her after she gave birth.
Exactly. And yet you keep dragging this verse out as if it said otherwise.
Their doctrines are man-made. These are beyond interpretations. They're extra-biblical fabrications.
I agree. You do all of these. Nowhere does the Bible say that Mary and Joseph had sexual relations. Yet you insist that yours is the "Biblical" position. It's so much hogwash.
Stick to what the Bible says or remain silent. That's your philosophy, so do it.
SD
Yes but sometimes other scriptures help put it in context and you keep leaving out Matthew 1:24 which says: Matthew 1 24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
So now here in Genesis we get an idea of what a wife is: (and as oftentimes happen in the spiritual world, the verse number is the same......eeeek) Genesis 1:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
I wouldn't see it that way. I would see it as a verification that there is a father, son and holy spirit, it's not describing the nature of the Godhead unless it's being read into it.
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Paraphrased, it's saying "Greetings to the elect, whom God foreknew would be elect, whom God set apart by giving the gift of his holy spirit, and who obey Christ and are covered by his blood."
All of these are facts, but it's not a description of the Godhead unless it's presupposed that the Godhead is a trinity of persons in heaven.
Yes, Joseph married Mary. This is not in dispute.
So now here in Genesis we get an idea of what a wife is: (and as oftentimes happen in the spiritual world, the verse number is the same......eeeek) Genesis 1:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
You think, perhaps, that this is a sexual reference? Grow up.
SD
Ya dope...I was just about to comment how cool that was that the verses matched up and then you had to go and blow it in your next post.... :-=)
It's not?? I think it's evident that we become in essence one flesh during sex. Although that's probably not the entire meaning of the verse.
Why not. They were naked. :-)
Yes but sometimes other scriptures help put it in context and you keep leaving out ...Matthew 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:Now here in Genesis we get an idea of what a wife is: (and as oftentimes happen in the spiritual world, the verse number is the same......eeeek)Genesis 1:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.I agree. This is the natural and Biblical implication.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Any other conclusion needs additional evidence.
Hey its still verse 24. All is not lost. :-)
Thanx. Does that mean I still need to "grow up"? :-)
I just looked at it. I would certainly call the tone of it "self-congratulatory." I could see where, by lumping all together as "Protestants" it could be considered bashing. Certainly not every statement is true for every Protestant.
SD
Hey ... it's still the 24th verse!
I would think that given the evidence in verse 25 that they had no relations, interpreting Joseph "taking" Mary as his wife to mean they had relations is contradictory.
In fact, one could argue that the fact that Joseph married her without the usual wedding night festivities establishes that this is a diffeent kind of marriage.
SD
There are no mention of wedding night festivities in Genesis either.
God gave them the Law. They voluntarily chose to accept it. Are you "in bondage" to the Ten Commandments? Is it a heavy yoke to not murder or commit adultery?
which is even called a curse in the NT
That's not what its called in the Hebrew scriptures. David certainly had a different perception of the Law than did Paul. Psalm 119 illustrates the Jewish perspective on the Law.
Christianity is at liberty from the Law
Really? So adultery is okay, now? You are free to do anything you please?
What are you saying? Matthew 1:24 says that Joseph took Mary as his wife. But it does not say that they had sex.
SD
For two weeks, until the peacekeeping forces can turn to law enforcement. ;-)
SD
If anything, I'd think "born of" could, in a stretch, mean Mary as a "surrogate mother". Made of sounds even more like Jesus had some sort of genetic relationship to Mary. Which is exactly the opposite of what newgeezer and biblewonk say the words imply.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.