The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[malakhi]

Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe

[malakhi]

Douglas, on the thread I linked above, one of the posters said that the United Church of God teaches Anglo-Israelism. Is this true?

[Quester]

Are you saying Malakhi has a "dumb" spirit? :-)

No way!

[SoothingDave]

This whole Anglo-Israelism is so close, and yet so wrong.

Everyone knows it's the Irish who are God's chosen people. :-)

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Are you saying Malakhi has a "dumb" spirit? :-)

I wouldn't, but he could use one of these. :)

BigMack

[JHavard]

Douglas, on the thread I linked above, one of the posters said that the United Church of God teaches Anglo-Israelism. Is this true?

Of course I can't speak for what Douglas's Church teaches now, but the WWCofGers followed the book Herbert wrote called, The United States and Britain in Prophesy.

Herbert had supposedly pleasurized his information from other sources, but his main presentation was that the US and Britain, were the descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh, the sons of Joseph by the Pharaoh's daughter.

Jacob, when blessing them, crossed his hands and gave the greater blessing to the younger son, Ephraim, which they taught was to become the United States, and the lesser blessing to Manasseh, who was Britain. Gen 48:1-22

This was the most compelling books to come from Herbert, and I would still like to believe it, as it was a great read.

JH :-)

[malakhi]

I wouldn't, but he could use one of these. :)

LOL! That actually looks pretty comfy. ;o) In reality, something for my back would be better.

[JHavard]

This was the most compelling books to come from Herbert, and I would still like to believe it, as it was a great read.

I wonder if my post number has any significance?

JH Lol

[malakhi]

Becky, I wanted to let you know that I received your booklet in the mail today. Thanks!

[JHavard]

Reggie, where have you been, converting your lawnmower over to a snowblower? huh?

JH :-)

[malakhi]

sara, you might be interested in the article I linked in my #46661.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

This whole Anglo-Israelism is so close, and yet so wrong. Everyone knows it's the Irish who are God's chosen people. :-)

I was reading an interesting article called "Abraham's math". Don't really know what to think of it but here's a portion from it and you'll get the idea.

The May 2002 issue of the Atlantic Monthly magazine contains an interesting article on genealogy. the writer, Steve Olson, is quite familiar with the procedures involved in tracing one's family tree.

During a visit to Ireland (one of the countries of his ancestry) Olson met a computer scientist and genealogist at Dublin City University named Mark Humphrys. One of the discoveries Hunphrys made in his research was that: "Whenever a reliable family tree was available, almost anyone of Eu8ropean ancestry turned out to be descended from English royalty...even such unlikely people as Hermann Goring and Daniel Boone. Hunprys began to think that such descent was the rule rather than the exception in the Western World, even if relatively few people had the documents to demonstrate it."

It is interesting to note that if one is descended from English royalty, they might also be decended from kin David of Israel, for the royal family has genealogical charts showing their ancestry all the way back to David and further on to Adam.

According to Eliezer Shulman, in his book The Sequence of Events in the Old Testament, Avraham was born in the year 1948 from creation (approximately 2050 BC). His son of promise, "Yitzchak (Isaac), was born one hundred years later in 2048 from creation apprx. 1950 BC. This places the birth of Isaac some 3950 years from the present time. Using 25 years as a generation means that today we are 158 genterations removed from Abraham. Using 40 years per generation, still removes us nearly 100 generations.

The number of ancestors for any single person increases exponentially with each generation (two parents, four grandparents, eight great-grandparents, etc.) Going back only 40 generations yields a potential of over one trillion direct ancestors for a single individual. this number far exceeds the total number of people who have ever lived on the earth since the beginning of time. With such immense numbers involved, it should come as no surprise that we are all more closely related than might have been imagined.

Steve Olson continues in his article: "The idea that virtually anyone with a European ancestor descends from English royalty seems bizarre, but it accords perfectly with some recent research done by Joseph Chang, a statistician at Yale University....

"In a 1999 paper titled 'Recent Common Ancestors of All Present-Day individuals,' Chang showed how to reconcile the potentially huge number of our ancestors with the quantities of people who actually lived in the past...Under the conditions laid out in his paper, the most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past---only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400.

The mathematical model developed by Chang contains one assumption that can change this seemingly incredible fact. It assumes that every person in Europe, over this six hundred year period, could potentially marry any other person (of the opposite sex) in Europe. According to Olson: "These departures from randomness must push back somewhat the date of Europeans' most recent common ancestor."

However, there has been a great "churning" of peoples of the world over the last several hundred years, as European civilization spread around the world during the Age or Discovery.

"This constant churning of people makes it possible to apply Chang's analysis to the world as a whole. For example almost everyone in the New World must be descended from Enlish royalty---even people of predominantly African or Native American ancestry, because of the long history of intermarriage in the Americas."

Olson's conclusion to the matter is that: "the most common ancestor of all six billion people on earth today probably lived just a couple of thousand years ago."

Abraham lived nearly 4 thousand years ago. Surely if this statistical model is anywherre near correct, every person on earth could conceivably be descended from him, just as the Nivrecu Theory suggests. Equally possible is the theory that every person on earth could be decended from the twelve sons of Jacob, the progenitors of the children of Israel..

So you see ladies and gents, I am my own grandpa afterall. :-)

[malakhi]

So you see ladies and gents, I am my own grandpa afterall. :-)

Hey wait, I thought you were Robby's grandpa. If you are also your own grandpa, then you and Robby must also be either brothers or cousins. I'll leave out the possibility of half- or step- siblings. ;o)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

The old turd is probably running naked thru the tulips. :)

BigMack

[malakhi]

The old turd is probably running naked thru the tulips. :)

The mind reels. ;o)

[nate4one]

PRAYER, PRAYER, PRAYER

I have a friend named Jotham (on another site) who is a brother in the Lord.
His wife has MANY benign tumoprs that need removed. She had about 11 removed and then when she went back to get about 20 removed, the insurance denied her because they were under the impression it was for cosmetic reasons.
However these cause her extreme pain.

I would like to request aactivation of the best prayer team on the web for my friend and his wife. That her pain would be bearable and her surgery approved and hastened. Heck, if not an absolute miracle first.

Thanks in advance and God Bless
Nate

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

***How would you define "faith"?***

FAITH. The N.T. mentions three kinds of faith: demonic faith (Jam. 2:19), dead faith (Jam. 2:17-26), and saving faith (Ep. 2:8-9). Saving faith is described in Romans 4:9-25

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Gen 17:5

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Gen 15:5

19
And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification

. Faith comes through hearing the Word of God (Ro. 10:17). Truths such as creation and salvation must be received by faith (He. 11:2). Without faith it is impossible to please God (He. 11:6).

***How would you define "belief"?***

BELIEVE. Man's part in salvation is to believe in Jesus Christ (Jn. 3:16; 6:28-29). What does this mean? In the English Bible, the Greek word commonly translated "believe" (pisteuo) is also translated "commit to one's trust" (Lk. 16:11; Jn. 2:24; Ro. 3:2; 1 Co. 9:17; Ga. 2:7; 1 Th. 2:4; 1 Ti. 1:11; Tit. 1:3). This is the basic meaning of believing in Christ. It means to commit myself to Him, to fully trust Him for salvation. It means to believe in such a way that I actually turn away from sin and idols and false religion to receive Jesus Christ as my only Lord and Savior.

Another Greek word translated believe or trust is peitho. It means to be confident, to be fully persuaded (Ro. 2:19; 8:38; 2 Co. 2:3; 2 Th. 3:4; 2 Ti. 1:12). This is the type of faith which is required for salvation. To be saved, a person must be fully persuaded that Jesus Christ is everything the Bible says He is. He must be confident that Jesus can and will save him from sin (He. 3:14).

This true Bible meaning of "believe" clarifies the problem of faith and works in salvation. It is faith alone, not works, which saves (Ro. 3:4; Ga. 2:3; Ep. 2:8-9; Tit. 3:3-7); but real Bible faith always results in a changed life and in good works (Ep. 2:10; Tit. 3:8; 2 Co. 5:17; 1 Jn. 3:1-3). Those who profess to believe in Christ, but whose lives remain unaffected by their profession, do not have the type of faith required for salvation.

True faith is based upon God's Word, the Bible (Ro. 10:17; He. 11). True faith is not a blind wish or uncertain hope. The lost man, for example, often believes everything will be all right with him after death no matter what religion he follows, because he "feels" that he is O.K. with God. This is blind faith. The Christian's faith, on the other hand, rests upon the sure Word of God (Jn. 20:30-31; Ac. 1:3). To have saving faith a person must hear and believe the words of the Bible concerning God's promises in Christ. To have daily, serving faith, a Christian must read the Bible often and believe its words. "So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (Ro. 10:17).

BigMack

[Mr. Lucky]

Great post.

[CindyDawg]

We have been thinking about owner financing ours. easier to sell and you make more in the long run, if you don't need the cash up front.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Rent it out and treat it like a business, it THEN becomes a asset instead of a liability. It makes you money instead of costing you money, and someone else pays for it for you. Hard to go wrong on a deal like that, just be sure you screen the renters REAL good before you rent it.

BigMack