Posted on 05/16/2024 7:11:27 AM PDT by ebb tide
Thank you, Lord, for opening my eyes 30+ years ago and freeing me from this bondage of guilt, shame, and “it’s never enough”. Soften the hearts of those clearly searching and give them ears to hear. Let them truly feel the finished work of Your sacrifice on the cross. Amen.
“Note that the application of water is indispensable. There is no spiritual rebirth without the application of water.”
If I was the thief on the cross I’d sure be mad waking up in Hell.
“Which is it, Mr Rogers?”
What it is, ebb tide, is that you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God!
We do not repent of individual sins, but of a life in rebellion against God. When born again, we will struggle against sin - BECAUSE the HOLY SPIRIT in us causes us to grieve over our sins!
If the Holy Spirit was in you, you would know what Jesus said is true: “When, however, the Spirit comes, who reveals the truth about God, he will lead you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own authority, but he will speak of what he hears and will tell you of things to come. 14 He will give me glory, because he will take what I say and tell it to you.” - John 16
And you would understand what Paul wrote in Galatians (3):
“Tell me this one thing: did you receive God’s Spirit by doing what the Law requires or by hearing the gospel and believing it? 3 How can you be so foolish! You began by God’s Spirit; do you now want to finish by your own power?”
You would also understand what Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:
14 As Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the desert, in the same way the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. 16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to be its judge, but to be its savior.
18 Those who believe in the Son are not judged; but those who do not believe have already been judged, because they have not believed in God’s only Son.
19 This is how the judgment works: the light has come into the world, but people love the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds are evil. 20 Those who do evil things hate the light and will not come to the light, because they do not want their evil deeds to be shown up. 21 But those who do what is true come to the light in order that the light may show that what they did was in obedience to God.”
To repeat for emphasis:
“18 Those who believe in the Son are not judged; but those who do not believe have already been judged, because they have not believed in God’s only Son.”
“Do penance?” Where in the New Testament do you find that?
"Let him do penance for his sin, | |
| 2 | "If thy people Israel shall fly before their enemies, (because they will sin against thee,) and doing penance, and confessing to thy name, shall come, and pray, and make supplications to thee in this house: |
|---|---|
| 3 | "If heaven shall be shut up, and there shall be no rain, because of their sins, and they praying in this place, shall do penance to thy name, and shall be converted from their sins, by occasion of their afflictions: |
| 4 | "Then if they do penance in their heart in the place of captivity, and being converted make supplication to thee in their captivity, saying: We have sinned, we have done unjustly, we have committed wickedness: |
| 5 | "If thy people Israel be overcome by their enemies, (for they will sin against thee,) and being converted shall do penance, and call upon thy name, and pray to thee in this place, |
| 6 | "And if they be converted in their heart in the land to which they were led captive, and do penance, and pray to thee in the land of their captivity, saying: We have sinned, we have done wickedly, we have dealt unjustly: |
| 7 | "And my people, upon whom my name is called, being converted, shall make supplication to me, and seek out my face, and do penance for their most wicked ways: then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sins and will heal their land. |
| 8 | "And after that he was in distress he prayed to the Lord his God: and did penance exceedingly before the God of his fathers. |
| 9 | "His prayer also, and his being heard, and all his sins, and contempt, and places wherein he built high places, and set up groves, and statues before he did penance, are written in the words of Hozai. |
| 10 | "Hear, I beseech you, my words, and do penance. |
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 51 | "Now I am glad: not because you were made sorrowful; but because you were made sorrowful unto penance. For you were made sorrowful according to God, that you might suffer damage by us in nothing. | |||
| 52 | "For the sorrow that is according to God worketh penance, steadfast unto salvation; but the sorrow of the world worketh death. | ||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 53 | "Lest again, when I come, God humble me among you: and I mourn many of them that sinned before, and have not done penance for the uncleanness, and fornication, and lasciviousness, that they have committed. | ||||||||||
| 54 | "Wherefore leaving the word of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to things more perfect, not laying again the foundation of penance from dead works, and of faith towards God, | ||||||||||
| 55 | "And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery. | ||||||||||
| 56 | "The Lord delayeth not his promise, as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance. | ||||||||||
| 57 | "Be mindful therefore from whence thou art fallen: and do penance, and do the first works. Or else I come to thee, and will move thy candlestick out of its place, except thou do penance. | ||||||||||
| 58 | "In like manner do penance: if not, I will come to thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. | ||||||||||
| 59 | "And I gave her a time that she might do penance, and she will not repent of her fornication. | ||||||||||
| 60 | "Behold, I will cast her into a bed: and they that commit adultery with her shall be in very great tribulation, except they do penance from their deeds. |
The story of Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead as explained by Charles Spurgeon I found very interesting in how it relates to our own salvation. (see below)
Lazarus is dead. Bound up and dead. He can’t do ANYTHING. Yet Jesus can, and does - SAVES him. Jesus calls him to come out. Giving Lazarus the chance to say no I suppose. But Lazarus responds to Jesus.
And Jesus gives a command to the others to unbind him. Spurgeon relates that to how Christians further along their walk are to help the “new-borns” in growing their faith.
A faith that will require repentance along the way, and a faith that will include doing the work of God. IIRC there are three Greek words used in the NT for our word “works”.
One (and the most frequent) refers to God’s works as He performs them through us, which is the “faith without works” type.
The second refers to a person’s works. Our own personal striving.
A rarely used one refers to Satan’s works IIRC.
https://www.spurgeon.org/resource-library/sermons/unbinding-lazarus/#flipbook/
"Take heed to yourselves. If thy brother sin against thee, reprove him: and if he do penance, forgive him. | |
| 42 | "And that penance and remission of sins should be preached in his name, unto all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. |
|---|---|
| 43 | "But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. |
| 44 | "Do penance therefore for this thy wickedness; and pray to God, that perhaps this thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee. |
| 45 | "John first preaching, before his coming, the baptism of penance to all the people of Israel. |
| 46 | "And God indeed having winked at the times of this ignorance, now declareth unto men, that all should everywhere do penance. |
| 47 | "Then Paul said: John baptized the people with the baptism of penance, saying: That they should believe in him who was to come after him, that is to say, in Jesus. |
| 48 | "Testifying both to Jews and Gentiles penance towards God, and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. |
| 49 | "But to them first that are at Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and unto all the country of Judea, and to the Gentiles did I preach, that they should do penance, and turn to God, doing works worthy of penance. |
| 50 | "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness, and patience, and longsuffering? Knowest thou not, that the benignity of God leadeth thee to penance? |
You really are one arrogant sonuvabitch aren’t you, Torquemada Jr?
"And he came into all the country about the Jordan, preaching the baptism of penance for the remission of sins; | |
| 32 | "Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of penance; and do not begin to say, We have Abraham for our father. For I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham. |
|---|---|
| 33 | "I came not to call the just, but sinners to penance. |
| 34 | "Woe to thee, Corozain, woe to thee, Bethsaida. For if in Tyre and Sidon had been wrought the mighty works that have been wrought in you, they would have done penance long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. |
| 35 | "The men of Ninive shall rise in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it; because they did penance at the preaching of Jonas; and behold more than Jonas here. |
| 36 | "No, I say to you: but unless you shall do penance, you shall all likewise perish. |
| 37 | "No, I say to you; but except you do penance, you shall all likewise perish. |
| 38 | "I say to you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance. |
| 39 | "So I say to you, there shall be joy before the angels of God upon one sinner doing penance. |
| 40 | "But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance. |
The Truth hurts. Doesn’t it?
I'd say they probably need to read and study their Bibles, then.
You asked a question.
I answered it.
What’s your problem?
That’s like saying your grip on your rescuer is more important than the rescuer. In this case, Christ is running the Blackhawk, and you are practically unconscious, you have given him save-me-please, He is running the rest of the operation.
Ie., once you cross the threshold to faith, all your sins are forgiven, unless you think Christ was not enough, and the church (any church) has to add to it.
My preacher has a WAR for that explanation, when the person later starts looking lost again: was this person really honest about their initial saving faith in the first place?
I don’t agree with this either, but generally, I don’t argue about it... because it presupposes the initial confession of faith was a lie from the “wannabe believer”. Maybe there are cases, but I can’t judge. But I will bet there are a lot of folks we think are “lost” in heaven, just as a lot of folks who think they are saved WON’T be in heaven, because of the simple inability to recognize Christ as giving MORE THAN ENOUGH grace for everyone who will receive it.
My responsibility as a Christian is to convey the Gospel. I can NOT save a single soul. I need to have the Gospel down pat, God either wants that person, or He doesn’t. That does NOT include me needing to be a academically gifted theology professor or apologist, etc. God was clear: the Gospel stands on its’ on, I am just the conveyor for the person(s) He has in mind. Nothing more. I am to add nothing or takeaway anything. If you think otherwise, you may be in that camp of the self righteous who wakes up in hell.
I once saw someone here complaining about the Babylon Bee’s staff hamfisted (or similar description) attempt at converting Elon Musk. Guess what? They did what they were supposed to do under God’s command, presented the Gospel repeated the Gospel to Musk. God takes it from there. As long as that Gospel message is accurately conveyed, that’s all God wants out of you for the initial saving phase. Honestly those comments just weirded me out... it’s like they were saying, no normal Christian can get the Gospel to Musk it HAS to be through a great preacher or apologist, to bring Musk on board. Great, you just said Christ was not enough. It doesn’t sound like you trust the Gospel or Christ.
We come in again in the discipleship phase...
Additionally, Christ also knew none of us would move His story absolutely perfectly, I suspect it has a lot of automatic self correction built in, so when it goes through my mouth, it will still work fine on the receiver side :)
Catholic drivel. Ignore.
Of course!
Prots ignore Satan.
They’re already saved.
——>Prots ignore Satan.
Not all Prots, just the foolish ones.
correct
Anybody who rejects the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church is foolish.
I disagree. However, foolish Prots keep the Catholic Sunday. They are as good as Catholic, in spite of what they claim.
What day did Jesus Christ arise from the dead, Phil?
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