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To: daniel1212

**Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.**

The next chapter has Peter in front of the church elders, defending his mission to the Gentiles in Caesarea, and how he had a responsibility after the Holy Ghost was poured out on them:

“Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?” Acts 11:17

To the crowd that believes that water baptism is not a salvation issue, Peter’s response there should seem needless, because they believe that there was nothing for Peter to withstand from God.

But there was: He HAD to command those Gentiles to be baptized. It was God’s command. The disciples were commanded to remit sins (John 20:23), and they did this by faith that water baptism in the name of Jesus was for the remission of sins. Peter confirms it in 1 Peter 3:21:

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”

1. Peter says water baptism saves.
2. He says it isn’t a bath, but it gives the obedient a good conscience toward God.
3. Why? Because the resurrection of Jesus Christ is confirmation that his commands are to be followed. And an important one is Mark 16:16:

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”


115 posted on 03/18/2024 10:02:07 PM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: Zuriel
And an important one is Mark 16:16:

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”


Which does NOT say:

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that is BAPTIZETH not shall be damned.”

116 posted on 03/19/2024 5:15:34 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Zuriel
**Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.** The next chapter has Peter in front of the church elders, defending his mission to the Gentiles in Caesarea, and how he had a responsibility after the Holy Ghost was poured out on them: “Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?” Acts 11:17 To the crowd that believes that water baptism is not a salvation issue, Peter’s response there should seem needless, because they believe that there was nothing for Peter to withstand from God. But there was: He HAD to command those Gentiles to be baptized. It was God’s command. The disciples were commanded to remit sins (John 20:23), and they did this by faith that water baptism in the name of Jesus was for the remission of sins. Peter confirms it in 1 Peter 3:21:

What kind of illogical reasoning is this? You have previously unregenerate men whose heart was purified by faith (Acts 15:9) BEFORE being baptized, who then are not baptized as being regenerate souls but also told to "abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood." (Acts 15:20)

Thus by your perverse reasoning (baptism being commanded of believers means this is essential for remission of sins), these souls must also obey other commands in order to receive remission of sins!

Why can you not just admit that these previously lost souls (Acts 11:14) already had their hearts "purified by faith" BEFORE baptism, realizing by the heart "washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" (Titus 3:5) but that obedience thru the Spirit is what regeneration effects? (Rm. 8:14)

Instead, you are compelling an effect of regeneration as being necessary for that. Likewise, since Jesus told the palsied man whom He had forgiven and healed "Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house," (Mark 2:11) - which was to so that others "may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins," (v. 10)

We are supposed to be willing to follow the Truth wherever it leads, versus compelling the word of God to conform to a denomination doctrine.

Peter confirms it in 1 Peter 3:21: “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:” 1. Peter says water baptism saves.

Which (1Pt. 1:21) is by the same apostle who preached

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins," (Acts 10:43) "And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9)

- before baptism.

Which would mean that if Peter is now teaching in 1 Peter 3:21 that baptism is the means of regeneration then he is contradicting his own preaching and testimony. Instead, your presumption is an example of not recognizing the sense in which baptism saves.

Which indeed it does, consistent with the three senses of salvation (Present: Jn. Jn. 5:24; 1 Jn. 5:23; Continued: Hebrews 3:6; Full-fillment: Revelation 21:1-7; 22:4) in which being reconciled to God by heart-purifying, regenerating faith as Cornelius and household exampled, yet while once "we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." (Romans 5:10)

Which is the context of 1 Pt. 3:21:

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (1 Peter 3:18)

Consistent with,

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth." (Colossians 3:1-2)
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. (1 Peter 4:1-2)
At conversion, Cornelius and company, as with all believers, were "washed" by heart-purifying faith, regenerated, "sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:11) Thus such are risen with Christ to "walk in newness of life" and which the baptism of Cornelius and believers signifies (Romans 6:4) but will only be finally saved by the same effectual faith .

Thus Peter exhorts those who were already presently saved believers:

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: (2 Peter 1:10)

Peter is not referring to being forgiven, and born of the Spirit, and present salvation, but of future realization of this by continuing in that faith. For ,

For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; (Hebrews 3:14)

In contrast to those who were never born of the Spirit or who terminally fall away. (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 3:12; Heb. 10:25-39)

Rather than a ritual effecting regeneration, baptism signifies what this means, and saves in the sense of walking consistent with it. Meaning identifying with the Lord Jesus in His crucifixion and resurrection which baptism declares. To act contrary to that is a denial of faith.

And in anyone thinks a ritual is meaningless, then they need to read 1 Co. 11:27-32 and see what happened to hypocritical partakers.

Just as effectual remembering the Lord's death means declaring it by manifesting union with Christ and each other by taking part in a closed-communal meal with others who are bought by His sinless shed blood - and to act contrary to this it is not actually "remember" His death and suffer chastisement, (1 Co. 11:17-32) so also, we shall be saved by his life, by His resurrection power walking in faith.

2. He says it isn’t a bath, but it gives the obedient a good conscience toward God.

Actually the word for answer in "of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus" is eperōtēma and denotes "demand," "desire," which is actually saying in order to obtain salvation, but is consistent with obedience by the Spirit being a fruit of conversion, thus I myself was properly baptized a few years after manifestly becoming born again (while still a RC) and later left Rome for a baptist church.

3. Why? Because the resurrection of Jesus Christ is confirmation that his commands are to be followed. And an important one is Mark 16:16: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

And which is wholly consistent with what I said, that since faith effects obedience, which baptism is normally the formal expression of, and it both requires and manifests faith, then sometimes the terms can be used interchangeably. Meaning a command to be baptized is a command to believe, and since those who act according to faith manifest that they are believers, then the promise of the Spirit can be given to them. Acts in Acts 2:38, but which Acts 10:36-47, 15:7-9 interprets, showing what actually results in regeneration.

Back to Cornelius and company, and all OT believers who did not literally pass thru the Red Sea, and multitudes of believers such as in the Great Awakenings in the past, then if baptism is essential for forgiveness of sins and regeneration, then you must consigned all to being unregenerate souls who were still in their sins until and unless they were baptized.

123 posted on 03/20/2024 9:01:41 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves damned+destitute sinners on His acct, believe, b baptized+follow HIM)
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