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To: Cronos

“where does St. Paul mention ‘the abomination of desolation’ in the letters to the Thessalonians?”

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 NKJV
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Christ described the same two events (i.e. apostasy and abomination of desolation) this way:

Matthew 24:10-15 NKJV
And then many [professed followers of Christ who are persecuted] will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Therefore when you see the “abomination of desolation,” spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand)...

Both passages allude to Daniel:

Daniel 9:27 NKJV
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.

Daniel 11:31 & 36 NKJV
And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation...
Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done.

Daniel 12:11 NKJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

“it’s only in 1 Tim that you have apostasy mentioned by St. Paul. Did you mix that up?”

No. The term “apostacy” is only used twice in the New Testament, and there is some debate about the meaning.

Perhaps you meant this passage:

II Timothy 4:3-4 NKJV
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

This certainly seems a lot like the idea of apostasy since it refers to professed Christians.

Apostasy is from the Greek “apostasia” used only in 2 Thessalonians 2 and Acts 21:21, where Paul was falsely accused of causing Jewish Christians to forsake Moses (as an apostasy). We learn from this passage that Jews should not abandon their Jewishness or quit following the Law of Moses to be a follower of Christ and Gentiles do not need to become Jewish or start following the Law of Moses to follow Christ.

https://biblehub.com/greek/646.htm

This Greek word is also used in the Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures that was in common use when the New Testament was written. These are the passages that use the word:

Joshua 22:22
2 Chronicles 29:19
2 Chronicles 33:19
Jeremiah 2:19
Jeremiah 29:32
Jeremiah 36:32

It is also used in 1 Maccabees, a deuterocanonical book:

1 Maccabees 2:15
And they that were sent from king Antiochus came thither, to compel them that were fled into the city of Modin, to sacrifice, and to burn incense, and to depart from the law of God.

Deuterocanonical books are not considered scripture by Jews or Protestants, but they are informative as part of the Septuagint. Paul was certainly familiar with the above passage and probably had it in mind when he used the term “apostasia”. Antiochus was a prototype of the Antichrist, defiling the temple and seeking to force Jews to apostatize from the Law of Moses. The abomination of desolation and the apostasy go together. These are both connected in Revelation to the mark of the beast.

Revelation 12:11 NKJV
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

Revelation 13:14-17 NKJV
And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Revelation 14:9-11 NKJV
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Revelation 15:2 NKJV
And I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who have the victory over the beast, over his image and over his mark and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, having harps of God.

Revelation 16:2 NKJV
So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.

Revelation 19:20 NKJV
Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

We see a connection between the revealing of the Antichrist at the abomination of desolation and his persecution of God’s people. He seeks to compel everyone, including God’s people, to worship him and thus, commit apostasy. But God’s people will ultimately triumph over the Antichrist even though many will suffer greatly during this time of tribulation. Unfortunately, many professing followers of Christ will not endure, will hate each other and betray each other.

Does that sound surprising? Look at the animosity that often accompanies discussions between us “Christians” on threads about the end times or what it means to be a true “Christian”.


101 posted on 03/14/2024 12:19:03 PM PDT by unlearner (I, Robot: I think I finally understand why Dr. Lanning created me... ;-)
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To: unlearner

thank you for responding - these were good!


104 posted on 03/15/2024 6:25:32 AM PDT by Cronos (I identify as an ambulance, my pronounces are wee/woo)
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