A quick note on Michael Voris admission #catholic

Charles Carroll Society ^ | 04/25/2016

[af_vet_1981]

You continue, however, to assume what you need to prove, namely, that the "NT church" ceased to exist at some point, should be spoken of in the past tense, and needs to be re-invented and reverse-engineered by fallible men who think the instructions (and, worse, the mandate!) for doing that are found in Scripture.

Yes, that is the insurmountable obstacle; the Protestant argument in a nutshell is that the catholic Church failed for almost 1500 years and then was

1. restored,
2. recreated,
3. reengineered,
4. reimagined, or
5. reconstructed by men and women, going in different theological directions, who were not Jewish Apostles, who had no divine authority, nor scriptural appointment, no matter how many books they wrote or sold. The best that can be said is they tried to do their best no matter how flawed their lives and the outcome.

Conversely, the highest obstacle for the Catholic Church is to resist apostasy in the large numbers of the faithful and survive bad bishops, which is similar to the problems the kingdoms of Israel and Judah had.

1 Kings: 19:18
Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

[patriot torch]

It’s moronic to conclude that Scripture or any other to support the false doctrine of purgatory.

Which the rcc essentially is saying, unless your loved ones pay a ransome to rome, the vatican will continue to hold hostages.

Sounds more like hamas!!!

You can continue to pay your ransome to a cult, but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord and Trust in His Word!

[ebb tide]

I Corinthians

11 For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: 13 Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

[patriot torch]

Be at agreement with thy adversary betimes, whilst thou art in the way with him: lest perhaps the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.

__________________________

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

This regards personal forgiveness, one to another for offenses committed.

When a believer fails to forgive a brother for offenses committed against him, God becomes that person’s Adversary and thereby Judge. It has nothing to imply purgatory. Since there is no such thing as purgatory other than a ponzi scheme developed by rome.

Think about how foolish that false doctrine is. Unless you submit to rome’s demands, rome will not release the hostages.

First of all, rome has no authority over the matter.

Second of all, why doesn’t the vatican pay the ransome with the untold billions of ill gotten gain they possess? (if that were even the case)

[patriot torch]

First of all, the Foundation is Calvary and the price Jesus paid to deliver Believers from sin.

The Foundation is the Cross. And when I say the Cross, I am not speaking of a wooden idol, but rather the Victory that was won 2,000 years ago.

The reference to the symbols presented in verse 12 represent True Doctrine that will stand the test of time when presented according to the support of the written Word. (So the vatican fails this test since they have replaced the Gospel with traditions and ordinances devised in the minds of men.)

False doctrines and traditions which is the foundation of the rcc will burn just as wood, hay and stubble.

For those not Born Again according to Scripture, will stand before the Judgement Seat at the White Throne,

and will stand alone without an Advocate all because they have rejected the True Advocate and the Price He paid to lay the Foundation.

Galatians 1:8-10
King James Version
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

[patriot torch]

BTW, regarding the ransome money collected through the false doctrine of purgatory, is the vatican using this money to facilitate the rampant child abuse within the rcc as Voris claims?

So rather than seeking to divert the conversation to another topic, how about addressing the epidemic of child abuse within the roman catholic church?

Tell me, where does the money come from which is used by the roman catholic church to pay for silencing its victims and continue to play musical churches for accused priests?

On second thought, don’t bother answering, Voris already answered that.

[fishtank]

I think that you haven’t admitted that Jesus paid for all sin, past present and future.

Until then, it will be impossible to understand these issues.

http://www.thecounciloftrent.com/ch22.htm

“ CANON III.—If any one saith, that the sacrifice of the mass is only a sacrifice of praise and of thanksgiving; or, that it is a bare commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross, but not a propitiatory sacrifice; or, that it profits him only who receives; and that it ought not to be offered for the living and the dead for sins, pains, satisfactions, and other necessities; let him be anathema.”

[ebb tide]

So rather than seeking to divert the conversation to another topic,...

It was you and Daniel who diverted to the topic of Purgatory.

In you post #38, you stated, "Question I have concerning the unbiblical doctrine of purgatory..."

You followed it up with your post #39, "BTW, I know you addressed this in your previous post, but I guess this is better to be questioned of catholics."

I am a Catholic and I have addressed your question with two direct quotes from Scripture, which you appear to reject out of hand.

But to back on the topic of child abuse by religious, here goes:

US’ Largest Protestant Sect Releases 205-Page List Of Accused Abusers

Child Sex Abusers in Protestant Christian Churches: An Offender Typology

Full List of Texas Pastors Charged With Abusing Children This Year

How Protestant Churches Hid Sexual Abuse

Sexual Abuse in Protestant Churches

Pot, meet Kettle.

[patriot torch]

A quick look at the text in the first link shows...

“The current list shows that at least nine people were connected to work in a ministry setting in some capacity while two others were connected with a Southern Baptist church.”

From the following excerpt, we can extrapolate the percentages, which is far from being an epidemic as it is in the roman catholic church.

And I quote:

“The group has at least 14 million members and more than 47,000 churches in all 50 states.”

[ebb tide]

Just like you extrapolate the Bible to deny what is disagreeable to you?

[Elsie]

Sound’s like Rome has been wrong from the get-go.

[Elsie]

Links - ya gotta luvem!

https://freerepublic.com/~ebbtide/

[Jyotishi]

Thanks for posting the links. I have added them to this list:

Bishop Accountability

Abuse Tracker

Daily guide to media coverage of clergy abuse worldwide, and especially in the US Roman Catholic church. More than 100,000 articles blogged since 2006.

https://www.bishop-accountability.org/

oooooooooooooooooooooooo

Free Clergy Abuse Case Review

If you or a loved one suffered the physical and emotional effects of sexual abuse committed by a clergy member or priest, you may be entitled to legal representation and financial compensation.

* Cases may be filed anonymously to protect the victim’s identity.Receive your response in 24 hours

https://www.abuselawsuit.com/clergy-abuse-consultation/

The Roman Catholic Church is a major offender in the nationwide scandal of child sex abuse. Abusive priests misused their authority to sexually abuse children. High-ranking church officials often covered up these horrific incidents. In some cases, these cover-ups perpetuated the cycle of abuse in other parishes and dioceses.

https://www.abuselawsuit.com/church-sex-abuse/

List of Abusive Priests and Clergy Members

https://www.abuselawsuit.com/clergy-abuse-consultation/

oooooooooooooooooooooooo

Home/News/World»US’ Largest Protestant Sect Releases 205-Page List Of Accused Abusers
US’ Largest Protestant Sect Releases 205-Page List Of Accused Abusers

News18.com, May 28, 2022

https://www.news18.com/news/world/us-largest-protestant-sect-releases-205-page-list-of-accused-abusers-5259349.html?utm_source=pocket_saves

oooooooooooooooooooooooo

Child Sex Abusers in Protestant Christian Churches: An Offender Typology

Loyola University, New Orleans
January 2, 2023

https://www.qualitativecriminology.com/pub/osa148h6/release/2?utm_source=pocket_saves

oooooooooooooooooooooooo

Full List of Texas Pastors Charged With Abusing Children This Year

Newsweek, December 9, 2022

https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-texas-pastors-charged-abusing-children-1765910?utm_source=pocket_saves

oooooooooooooooooooooooo

How Protestant Churches Hid Sexual Abuse

Southern Maryland Chronicle
April 8, 2021

https://southernmarylandchronicle.com/2021/04/08/how-protestant-churches-hid-sexual-abuse/?utm_source=pocket_saves

oooooooooooooooooooooooo

Sexual Abuse in Protestant Churches

White Law PLLC

https://www.whitelawpllc.com/faqs/sexual-abuse-in-protestant-churches/?utm_source=pocket_saves

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[Elsie]

You're saying it's better to preach the wrong thing and do the right thing, rather than to preach the right thing and then fail to live up to your own standard?

I'm glad I read this clear to the ending question mark.

[Elsie]

He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Sounds like there is a prerequisite for the next verse...

[Elsie]

What you posted is not the truth.

Call no man father.

[Elsie]

You continue, however, to assume what you need to prove, namely,

Rome pronounced - on November 1, 1950 - that Mary was ASSUMED into heaven: never dying.

[Elsie]

In Matthew 5:25-26, Jesus is explicit about Purgatory.

In Matthew 23:9, Jesus is explicit about ...

[Elsie]

I Corinthians 3:11
For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus.

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
   and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

 

NIV Luke 6:48
   He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.

 

NIV Romans 9:33
  As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

 

 

 

NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
 4.  As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him--
 5.  you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
 6.  For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 7.  Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, "
 8.  and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.

---

But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS???

---

 

NIV Genesis 49:24-25
 24.  But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,
 25.  because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty,  who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb.

 

NIV Numbers 20:8
   "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink."

 

NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
  He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

 

NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
   Jeshurun  grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior.

 

NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
  You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.

 

NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
 30.  How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?
 31.  For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede.

 

NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
  "There is no one holy  like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.

 

NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
 2.  He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
 3.  my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn  of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me.

 

NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
  For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

 

NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
  "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior!

 

NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
 3.  The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,
 4.  he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.'

 

NIV Psalms 18:2
  The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn  of my salvation, my stronghold.

 

NIV Psalms 18:31
   For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

 

NIV Psalms 18:46
  The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!

 

NIV Psalms 19:14
   May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

 

NIV Psalms 28:1

   To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.

 

NIV Psalms 31:2-3
 2.  Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me.
 3.  Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.

 

NIV Psalms 42:9
   I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"

 

NIV Psalms 62:2
   He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.

 

NIV Psalms 62:6
   He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.

 

NIV Psalms 62:7
   My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.

 

NIV Psalms 71:3
   Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.

 

NIV Psalms 78:35
   They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.

 

NIV Psalms 89:26
   He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.'

 

NIV Psalms 92:14-15
 14.  They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green,
 15.  proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him."

 

NIV Psalms 95:1
   Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.

 

NIV Psalms 144:1
   Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.

 

NIV Isaiah 17:10
   You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.

 

NIV Isaiah 26:4
   Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.

 

NIV Isaiah 30:29
 And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.

 

NIV Isaiah 44:8
   Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." 

 

NIV Habakkuk 1:12
   O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

 

 

.....No other rock.............

 

And now you know the Biblical position!

[Elsie]

I am a Catholic and I have addressed your question with two direct quotes from Scripture, which you appear to reject out of hand.

Yup, you are a Catholic all right; and are EXTREMELY pissed at the current leadership of your chosen religion, which you manage to indicate with almost every thread you start on FR.