Posted on 11/08/2023 12:11:15 PM PST by Roman_War_Criminal
Perhaps so, but that’s not the same thing as saying that Judaism is capable of giving salvation.
The single most loving thing the Christian can do is try to win the Jew to Christ so they can become part of the people of God for eternity.
Thanks for posting the message.
I believe that Israel (the one in the OT) and the Jews are still part of God’s plan.
Not real sure how much it matters, since I am NOT God.
I don’t believe the Bible teaches infant baptism. Again, I don’t know what difference it makes EXCEPT …. actually, that makes something of a difference.
As an adult believer in the Lord Jesus Christ I was baptized in …. Believer’s Baptism.
IOW this is a command of Christ.
BTW don’t be a Jew-hater. (I speak to everyone, not to the thread starter.)
“The Covenant with Israel stands.”
It does. Read Romans Chapter 11. Paul makes 2 points abundantly clear.
1. I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin (vs1)
2. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! (11 and 12)
Israel will be saved after they are regrafted. If in fact they also join the Gentiles in obedience to Christ.
I wonder if the Holocaust and event today with Hamas have any bearing on the fact the Jews are outside the Will of God?
Congratulations on completely missing the point.
Pope Terry James’ authority to definitively declare something as error is what, again?
That’s right. He has none.
He ... and you ... reject Bergoglio’s claim to authority ... then Pope Terry James arrogates that same authority to himself.
It’s a real problem for Protestants ... in reality, none of you have authority to declare ANYTHING erroneous. Go ahead and express your own beliefs ... I might even agree with them ... but don’t presume to dictate them to anybody else.
“Please know this is an error” is something no Protestant has the authority to say. Try instead: “Please know that I disagree with this, and here’s why.” It’s consistent with your doctrine of private interpretation of Scripture.
GOD judges Israel, but only he can. Others who do itare punished very severely.
Who comes up with these loony ideas anyway?
1 Quadrillion Percent!
Messianic Judaism is true Judaism.
We have quickly reached the point (pun not intended) where we are close to debating How Many Ducks Can Stand on the Head of a Pin(head)
Right.
Do you believe Jews must accept Christ to make it to Heaven?
Absolutely yes.
But you didn’t answer my question.
No, sir, we have not. Your comment appears intended to stifle discussion, rather than further it. Is that the case?
To the point, the question of private interpretation vs. authoritative definition of doctrine is very important.
Simply put: Who is this Terry James creature, and what gives him the authority to tell ANYBODY: “Your beliefs are error”?
He has no such authority, and it’s incredibly arrogant for him to assume it.
The same applies to folks on this forum. We’d have a lot more in the way of fruitful discussion around here if we’d humbly discuss what we believe ... and why ... instead of arrogantly presuming to dismiss others’ beliefs as heresy and them as heretics.
I have a family member who believes this, and it has utterly poisoned him. It now has developed into a vicious hatred of Israel and of Jews.
I disagreed 100% and assured him that the today’s State of Israel in God’s eyes is the same one as when He drew up the Old Covenant with Moses, Abraham and Isaac.
= = =
As I recall, the OT Jews dissed God quite a few times. God dealt with them. They suffered from it. They remained Jews.
God fulfilled his promises to Israel in Jesus Christ.
Romans is crystal clear that (a) God only has one family, not two (or any other number), and (b) the believing Gentiles are grafted into that family in place of the unbelieving. Why is there really any argument over that?
No matter how it got there, the Church is now God’s people
One family, not two. God's people encompass both believing Jews and believing Gentiles. Read the New Testament.
and the beneficiary of the promises God made Israel in the Old Testament.
Certainly not! Those promises, from the Church's point of view, are typological. They point to bigger things. The real "land of milk and honey" is heaven, not a tract of land in the eastern Mediterranean. The real "exodus" is the believer's conversion from sin and death to life and faith in Christ. And so forth.
It doesn't follow that the original promises, to the original people to whom they were made, in the original sense in which they were understood, are any less valid. The gifts of God are without repentance.
Consequently, Jacob’s blood descendants have no unique destiny
It's settled Catholic doctrine that the conversion of the Jews is one of the events that herald the Second Coming. Obviously they have a unique destiny, or they wouldn't be here. (Ever met a Hittite? Me neither.)
and modern Israel’s existence has no significance.
I think we should be careful about equating "Israel" in Scripture with "Israel" on the (present-day) map. "Israel" in Scripture always included all twelve tribes. "Israel" on the map today doesn't, and probably can't.
Does modern-day "Israel" have prophetic significance? Maybe, watch and see.
Articles like these amount to elaborate strawman arguments, at least as far as Catholics are concerned. Maybe they are more meaningful against, e.g., dominionist Presbyterians. Maybe not, I don't know.
One thing that has bothered me over the years is, while I still espouse the KJV, is the Chain Reference version of the KJV that I own. In it, Old Testament passages are summarized at the beginning of each chapter, and in almost every case Israel and Judah is replaced by the Church in the Psalms, Proverbs, and many of the prophetic books.
This is especially troubling because those passages deal solely with Israel and/or Judah, not the Church, yet the promises given to Israel and Judah are ascribed to the Church, and that's wrong.
More people need to awaken to this heresy.
You asked: “Thus Christians should have no special care for Israel then, right?”
Everyone who is not a Christian needs to equally come to Christ, with no exceptions, to be in Heaven.
This applies to all faiths, or lack, thereof.
Christians need to have “special care” for everyone not a Christian.
What churches still teach replacement theology?
To my knowledge, it’s just Lutherans and its spin-offs: Methodist and Presbyterian. Maybe Church of Christ. Probably also the Episcopal.
So I do not see the Jews as being replaced; only that the new covenant was established and that all people are now invited.
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